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@cattat No mate that's not the point I'm making. What I mean is, we don't know whether 80kg is good or not for his height because it depends entirely on his bodyfat percentage. And on the other point, you can't say that being or wanting to be lean is a problem when different people have...

@cattat How is that relevant though? The weight depends entirely on bodyfat percentage. Whilst you may be 96kg, if you're a high body fat percentage it doesn't mean shit. For all we know, OP could be sub 10% bodyfat, at which point, 80kg for his height would be very respectable for a natty

@dawn16 Yeh fair enough, you know yourself better than me of course. I'm only a bit taller than you and visually don't look that different than your pic but I'm 15-20lbs lighter so to me it's surprising that that's 190-195. But I think on reflection and a little bit more reading on the topic...

@sugarcookies I didn't say it was, 1) it puts him above 25 and; 2) refer to my other point on absolute very top-tier genetics. My main point is that it's EXTREMELY unlikely to be over 25 ffmi and be natural. Maybe I should have used better wording, and said extremely unlikely, I just wanted to...

@dawn16 Bro you were not 190 at 10% bf at 5ft 9 or a bit under, that puts you at an FFMI of nearly 26 (aka most likely not possible naturally)... so 3 options here, 1) your bf was a lot higher than you thought, 2) you have the best genetics in the world) 3) you weren't natural. 150lbs at 10%...