Animal-free whey protein is on the market now!

[adamhurst]

You might think "But we can already get protein from plants" But a lot of people really dislike the taste of vegan protein powder and a lot of people still believe that plant protein isn't good enough to optimally build muscle which obviously isn't true, but it eventually will reduce dairy consumption because this product is now available, and that is, of course, a good thing. I compared the price to regular whey protein from myprotein which is a really cheap site and it's double the price, which is really good considering that it's a new technology and an even better quality product because it doesn't contain lactose, hormones and other crap you would find in dairy.

I don't want to sound like an advertisement, but if you're interested here's the product: https://californiaperformance.co/?g...21e9g-NTka4GVAnTH8nwJHqT8FPEKXsxoC37sQAvD_BwE

 

[dawn16]

@adamhurst We live in an excellent era! I'm glad we have the know-how to develop this kind of thing. Taste usually isn't much of a factor for me (I actually like the taste of a bit of plant-y grit in my shakes) and a mix of pea/soy/hemp can deliver similar BCAAs as whey, but this is a nice alternative for those who don't like the taste.

Another thing is that until V-Whey gains more traction, it'll be expensive for the time being. $29.99 for 15 servings at californiaperformance.com ain't the least expensive, but again, anything that's a step in the right direction is a good step.

 

[adamhurst]

@dawn16 It wouldn't surprise me if it becomes cheaper than regular whey, it's a new technology and only one company selling it

 

[gsimos1]

@adamhurst They milking bacteria now?

Kidding this is pretty cool and if it takes off I can see it really disrupting the dairy industry that is already starting to lose to plant based milks. My only concern is allergy's but hell I will try it!

 

[mallayka]

@gsimos1 Yeah , dairy industry really would take an enormous hit once cheeselike vegan cheese becomes a thing

 

[pwarrior]

@mallayka When we can precision ferment cheap vegan cheese world domination is assured! (Or at the least I'll be eating more nachos)

 

[mallayka]

@pwarrior Yeah watch out for Big Vegan™

 

[raef]

@adamhurst Yeah! People can stop whining about how whey is like 10% more bioavailable or whatever. They're also working on vegan whey cheese/ice cream, so vegetarians can stop whining about cheese lol.

 

[deacongirl]

@raef Thank you. People aren't looking at the big picture, imo. Proteins made by fermentation have the potential to destroy the meat and dairy industry. It's that simple.

I understand people are afraid of new tech, but this is truly an important development. We are never going to get 100% of the population to give a damn about animal welfare so we need ALL strategies to undercut factory farming. It is the evil of our times and it makes billions of dollars. The whey industry alone is 9 billion. https://www.statista.com/statistics/728005/global-whey-protein-market-size/

 

[klogan]

@raef Is it really more bioavailable? Back before I was vegan any time I tried whey, I'd get the worst stomach cramps. I wasn't even lactose intolerant and it still fucked me up.

Meanwhile, hemp, pea, soy etc? All of those are fine.

 

[raef]

@klogan From what I've seen, protein bioavailability research is not super compelling. Using the DIASS measuring system whey protein isolate scores a 109 and soy protein concentrate scores a 98.5. But, DIASS is specifically used to know the minimum amount of protein you need to survive. But whether DIASS applies to muscle growth is sketchy. The studies I've seen measuring muscle growth show no difference in muscle growth between soy and whey. At the highest levels, as long as you're hitting your branch chain amino acid requirements there seems to be no difference in gains.

 

[klogan]

@raef Thanks! This makes sense.

Speaking of DIASS, Mic the Vegan has an interesting break down of the issues with the DIASS measuring system in this video. I'm not an expert by far, but like you indicate above, he makes a compelling argument for it not being the best system.

 

[raef]

@klogan Cool! I like Mic, but I do take what he says with a grain of salt, because he never says anything negative about plant food or positive about animal products lol. Also he sometimes makes some hand wavy claims. I will definitely be looking through his sources for this one. I'm also not an expert. I'm just trying to shovel my way through all the bull shit out there lol.

 

[mollyanne]

@raef Yes, exactly ! Lifting vegan logic (Danny) also made a really great video on this topic, breaking down the DIASS system

 

[elliee]

@raef Thank you this is interesting. If you know of the studies could you please share them? I would like to learn more.

 

[raef]

@elliee I recommend listening to James Wilkes talk about protein digestibility on the Joe rogan podcast. Listening to him argue with Chris Kresser highlights a lot of research to read:

I do take what he says with a grain of salt though, because his documentary made a lot of hand wavy claims.

I'm not an expert/researcher, and I can't dive as deep as I would like to in this research. I would have also liked to look at more meta analyses and branch chain amino acid studies. Also, it would take me time to find the original studies I looked at. But, here is some from a bit of searching I did to get you on track:

Meta analysis saying soy matches whey:

https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijsnem/28/6/article-p674.xml

Two smaller studies measuring muscle growth after resistance training with soy vs whey. I see this result frequently when plant/whey protein are compared, but a meta analyses is probably needed instead of me reading individual studies: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-021-01434-9

https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ijsnem/16/3/article-p233.xml

Study on how much protein is needed for acute muscle gain per meal (25 grams of protein implying 3 grams of leucine is all you need per meal). This is something I have to look deeper into, but it is probably only relevant for top weight lifters: https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-018-0215-1#Sec5

I have to check the source for this paper, but it claimed that newer methods found "For soy protein isolate, pea protein flour or isolate, wheat flour and lupine flour, the figures were 89–92%, similar to those found for eggs (91%) or meat (90–94%), and slightly lower than those reported for milk protein (95%)"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6893534/

 

[elliee]

@raef Rad thank you for all the links. I'll check these out when I have time (that meta-analysis in particular) except for the Joe Rogan clip.

I just don't like listening to Joe anymore because I'm reminded of the last few years. I used to listen a bunch before his move to Texas, the BLM protests, and COVID which all contributed to my disinterest:

• The Texas move seemed like typical rich person tax-avoidance. CA has its problems but also kicks ass in some areas. Joe benefited from CA but when he got his he got out before giving back.
• He was spouting off that Antifa was starting the wildfires in OR and he made the situation worse during our flaming pandemic by riling up the people fighting in the streets. Right wing militias started setting up illegal check points to look for suspected Antifa wildfire arsonists. He apologized for this later but I think he should have done more to make up for it.
• I don't think his COVID response has been malicious but I think he's way out of his lane. His ego was too big and he was too anxious to take a back seat. He muddied the waters. Leave it to podcasters who are actual doctors, like Peter Attia, to weigh in and to even provide contrary opinions. At least the contrary opinions of Doctors are informed by medical training rather than Joe's contrary opinions which are a result of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Edit: typos, grammar

 

[raef]

@elliee I definitely agree with you on Rogan. But this particular episode is mostly James Wilkes from the game changers documentary yelling at Joe for spreading false info about vegan diets and his movie. Joe didnt say much the whole time.

 

[elliee]

@raef Joe being yelled at might be a fun episode.

 

[niko4460]

@klogan IIRC most research on protein bioavailability places animal protein above plant protein sources, and consistently shows higher levels of acute muscle protein synthesis with animal proteins. The main problem with all of this is that when you actually compare them by measuring muscle growth, it doesn't seem to show a significant difference over time.

If there's an actual difference, it doesn't seem to be big enough to matter for the vast majority of people.