Gym workout programs for those who can't do dead lifts?

[finnfierro]

I posted a thread 2 days ago asking for recommendations for workout programs and the vast majority of recommendations centered on deadlift and squat exercises (i.e. Barbell Method, 5/3/1, Greyskull LP, etc) . I should have mentioned that the problem is I tore my anterior meniscus ligament on my right knee 7 years ago. Although as of very recently, I'm again able to do squats just using my body weight as well as able to jog again, it's very risky for me to do either squats or deadlifts with heavy weights. Are there other programs? I unfroze my gym membership so not looking for a home workout program (i.e. p90x, p90x3), but something for the gym that's more about being fit as opposed to getting very ripped.. Here's the link to my previous thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fitness30plus/comments/97nube/gym_workout_program_recommendation_for

 

[andrewm12]

@finnfierro Not sure what you mean by Anterior meniscus ligament , as others say there’s no such thing. If it was your anterior meniscus cartilage then sometimes those manage or are repaired, depends on your case. If it was your MCL usually those heal fine. If yours didn’t then you would have required surgery. ACLs don’t heal but mostly those are repaired. You can live, walk, jog, and even lift heavy without an ACL as long as you maintain good form.

In fact I tore my ACL, ALL, MCL, and part of my meniscus just last Feb (in a mosh pit Ha!). I had my surgery in April and I am already back to my normal weightlifting routine! Taking it slow with squats but deadlifts are fine. In fact I just hit a PR yesterday that was more than I was lifting prior to my injury.

I think instead of taking this question to Reddit you should talk to a sports medicine doctor, physiotherapist, or orthopedist because you may be able to do more than you think. You should get the knee looked at by a professional.

 

[finnfierro]

@andrewm12 Medial meniscus contusion. I wrote in more detail about it above. It's now better than it was the last 7 years but never healed 100% and have re-injured it 3 times since just doing yoga or walking up stairs.

 

[andrewm12]

@finnfierro Wow yeah that sounds easy to reinjure. Sorry to hear that.

 

[ncfelix]

@finnfierro If you can do body weight squats you can definitely do very light weight deads (bar + 10 lb bumpers). Deadlifts shouldn’t stress your knees as much as squats, even at higher weights.

 

[michael1981]

@finnfierro https://cdn.muscleandstrength.com/sites/default/files/workouts/frankdumbbellonly.pdf

Omit deadlifts?

 

[rodofmoses]

@finnfierro I can't do dead lifts due to an elbow injury. I can't straighten my arm, so it puts the wrist at a terrible angle when doing dead lifts resulting in new injury and pain for weeks.

I have to be VERY careful not to progress too fast for upper body lifts so I don't reinjure my elbow. I had a radial head resection. Im literally missing 1/3rd of my elbow. So what most people do for a normal progression I just can't. And that's okay. I would imagine you would need the same care in squats.

I alternate between wendler 531 and p90x3 depending on my goals. Taking a good break from lifting as I reach new highs in my squats, bench, and press is good for my joint health and seems to work for me. I can't do some exercises in p90x3... So I skip them. And that's okay. I'm doing 26 minutes of a 30 minute workout. I'm just not going to do plyo pushups because they hurt my arm. So I skip things like that. I imagine the agility workout in p90x3 with a lot of jumping would be similar for you. If I just need to skip a day because it hurts that's fine. After an injury cut yourself a lot of slack. You aren't a quitter unless you stop going back. The 'no pain no gain' approach works when you're 18. Not 30+.

I can't do dead lifts in 531. I do bent rows. I'm able to keep my wrist straight in that motion. I incorporate good mornings on bent row day to make sure to hit the same muscle groups that dead lifts would as much as I can and within reason. It seems to be working. I'm missing 1/3 of my elbow, yet I'm the strongest I've ever been. Progress is slower than I want it to be, but hey, it's all good. I'm making progress and I feel good.

I STOP when it hurts and I only count pain free reps towards progress. This is critical. Working through the pain is important but ONLY under the safety and guidance of a physical therapist. In the weight room joint pain is bad. Always. Muscle burn is good. Joint pain is bad.

 

[acreativefollower]

@finnfierro Check out Arnold's workouts in the Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding. I've been on this program for 7+ years, and it's great, imo. He states specifically that deadlifts are not required and gives workouts without them.

Also, as someone with sciatica and other lower back issues, I've had to make some adjustments to my squat routine over time. Tom Platz has some great suggestions, in that he stopped relying on front and back squats for hypertrophy and went solely to hack squats. Hack squats are much safer for people with issues that prevent them from front and back squats. The method is hack squats with your heels almost touching, feet out like a duck, feet high on the pad, go all the way down and do not lock out at the top. You're wanting the muscles under tension constantly. This works, as I can attest. You can start out with none or very little weight and work your way up as you feel confident to do so.

 

[finnfierro]

@acreativefollower Thanks. Very helpful. Sounds somewhat similar to a type of modified squat my personal trainer had me do a few times. Forgot about them but they were tiring.

 

[acreativefollower]

@finnfierro If you do them right, with full range of motion, you will see results without using a ton of weight.

 

[christianspirit]

@finnfierro Deadlifts do not stress the knees. In fact by strengthening your hip and core, they support your knees. So if you're having issues with deadlifts such that your knee bothers you, there's something wrong with your form. Fix your form, and deadlifts will help your knee.

Squats are a different beast with knee injuries. Squats are good for strengthening knees, but sometimes with a knee injury, they can be too much, and they can cause pain. If this is the case, try split squats or lateral step ups. They may also be painful, but they may not, so it's worth trying. If they are painful, stick with the deadlifts, and also look into terminal knee extension exercises to help strengthen the muscles around your knee, and then in a few weeks, test drive the squats and/or split squats again.

Adding glute bridges and/or hip thrusts is also a good idea.

 

[finnfierro]

@christianspirit Thanks! This is very helpful info.

 

[alvarez1986]

@finnfierro Ask your physician to refer you to a physical therapist. They can help you get started in a safe way.

 

[sawyerbrownlive]

@alvarez1986 Concur. Whenever I tear myself up PT always gets me back to where I need to be. The exercises never make sense and seem too easy at first but fast forward 10 sessions and I am magically healed.

 

[christian_girl_323]

@finnfierro Try to post your question here. Squats and deadlifts are major exercises and if there is a way to do them safely (e.g. appropriate weight, range of motion, etc.) they should definitely be used. They will guide you better than here on Reddit.

 

[heartx144]

@finnfierro honestly if you are doing body weight squats why not just use the bar for deadlift? It is 45lbs so it isnt a whole lot.
If not there are some other exercise you can do for your lower back/hamstrings instead of deadlift. Good exercise for lower back and exercises for hamstrings and you'll find good substitutes.

 

[finnfierro]

Update: After further research, I decided to go with AthleanX AX-1 program. Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[tracyrobinson76]

@finnfierro Tape/wrap your knees. I had meniscus surgery and I still lift. I wrap them tight enough on heavy lifts that I have to unwrap between sets. But my knees are great. Better now actually since my legs are stronger.

See here:

https://www.mavasports.com/products...MI1OSos7PD3QIViJ6fCh3P-gNFEAQYASABEgJFZvD_BwE

If you need to heal first, do RDLs and Block Pulls to keep on s program and strengthen your back and core. Add squats once you can squat the bar without knee pain.

 

[21chicken]

@finnfierro ICF 5x5 is a program that has worked for many strength and physique athletes. It focuses on linear progression, and thats the best possible progression scheme for beginners.

- Heavy singles to prep central nervous system. Making other sets easier

- Trains each muscle group 2-3x a week for optimal strength and muscle gain

- 75% compound exercises for progressive overload, and multiple muscle engagement

This program has been used by athletes such as David Laid, Dylan Mckenna, Qwin Vitale, and much more. 5x5 training is regarded as the best training because of the ease to progress in weight, and build muscle mass.

(Just do this and take out deadlifts. It'll be no big problem)

 

[finnfierro]

@21chicken I got the Athleanx AX-1 program back in October but injured myself bad in the first week so haven’t been back to the gym in 2 months. I think I need to take these programs VERY slowly and ease into them over a 2 month period before going all out.