Help Getting Sufficient Protein Intake?

[wrtavares]

So I'd love to try plant based, but for the life of me don't know where to start in terms of getting enough daily P (180-200g). I've been bodybuilding for 14 years naturally and have predominantly followed a diet with fish being my main P source.

I'm intolerant to Soya products, I suffer from inflammation as soon as I go near any grains, I don't do too well with nuts and am wary of *some* seeds having horrible omega 6 profiles. I don't particularly want to use powders either, I prefer wholefood nutrition. I like beans and am fine with most, but how many beans can one eat in a day? Excess fibre? Lectin issue (even if soaked and cooked thoroughly?)

*Rule 8* my current diet is as follows:

300g wild seabass / 400g sweet potato

300g wild mahi mahi or red snapper / kiwi, blueberries, pineapple, yoghurt, dried figs and honey.

120g tinned sardines / 3 eggs / carrots / rocket salad with avocado and tomatoes.

Everything is organic and freshly made (minus the tinned sardines of course) and I fast for 16-18h daily. I drown most of my food in olive oil and lemon for some extra calories / taste. I got SIBO recently which has wreaked havoc with my digestive system but I think I'm 99% cured.

Any advice is warmly welcomed as I'd love to give plant based a go, I just don't have a clue where to start other than eating 500g of beans a day lol

 

[mrswhite13]

@wrtavares Some nut free and soy free protein sources are: vital wheat gluten aka seitan, soy free tvp, soy free tofu, lentils, peas, some beans and nutritional yeast.

Edit: Also just so you know there is no evidence that shows you would need more than 0.82g/lb of protein even when cutting to build muscle.

 

[quietsoul]

@mrswhite13 Wheat gluten is grain based and they said they have a problem with that.

 

[mrswhite13]

@quietsoul You're right, in my mind when I was reading the post I forgot that seitan was grain based since the final product looks nothing like grains, that combined with me also being sleep deprived :/

 

[wrtavares]

@mrswhite13 I didn't even know nutritional yeast was a thing but the macros look good so I'll definitely take a look at that, thank you.

Regarding the protein/lb bw, respectfully; I think a lot of the literature on that is bs, or its just an incredibly subjective topic.

I've sat anywhere from 0.8 all the way up to 1.4 and can unequivocally say that eating less than 1g/lb, I look worse. 1.1/1.2 is the sweet spot for me. There's no compromise on that unfortunately!

 

[mrswhite13]

@wrtavares It may be the case for you that you need more protein but I still believe most people would only need 0.82g/lb, further research needs to be done with more circumstances to understand more protein is needed. Did you actually notice an increase of body fat when you were below 1g/lb?

Another possibility is because of your dietary restrictions you got most of your nutrients from your main protein sources which could explain why you looked worse with less protein. This is just me guessing to the of my best ability so emphasis on possibility.

 

[wrtavares]

@mrswhite13 Not so much an increase in bf but I’d just be flatter and less 3D. At the other end of the scale, in the latter parts of a diet reaching 6-7% bf, I’d look noticeably softer and more watery sitting at 1.3/1.4. 1.1/1.2 is definitely the best of all worlds.

Anecdotally, my friends who started around the same time as me adhere to the older way of thinking (higher g/lb) and all look considerably better than those who started later and adhere to the newer way of thinking whereby less is more.

It all depends on how advanced you are in your training. Obviously genetics are at play but I’m yet to meet someone who looks significant better than me whilst eating substantially less p

 

[mrswhite13]

@wrtavares Were your calories the same when you had 0.8g/lb vs 1g/lb?

Anecdotally, my friends who started around the same time as me adhere to the older way of thinking (higher g/lb) and all look considerably better than those who started later and adhere to the newer way of thinking whereby less is more.

That still isn't convincing to me, you wouldn't know 1g/lb is what made them look better unless they tried going 0.82/lb and noticed a difference. Also if it turns out that 1g/lb is what you need to look your best that might only apply for those under 10-12% body fat. That still means majority of people wouldn't need to go higher with protein.

I'm not going to say that 1g/lb is definitely wrong because you can't ever say for sure, but I would need more research to convince me that more people would benefit going over 0.82g/lb. Especially since in previous research 0.72g/lb was shown to be enough in most cases and 0.82g/lb was the UL until progress plateaued.

 

[wrtavares]

@mrswhite13 When I try something new I always minimise variables so yeah cals remained consistent.

Of course, I’m not saying that the difference in P intake is what made the difference, seeing as they also adhered to the newer training philosophies too, which could’ve contributed to them looking worse.

How long have you been training, and which levels have you tried?

 

[sgs]

@wrtavares Could also be that these people you mention just haven't been training as long, since they are newer to it, or their genetic factors limit them more than yours, etc. Can't glean any conclusion about protein intake from a handful of anecdotes. That's why there are controlled studies. Then again, there is considerable variation amongst individuals, so you may need a bit more protein than others.

 

[mrswhite13]

@wrtavares Hi ik it's a bit random to reply now but I just heard about some research and remembered this post ,which I think provides an explanation on why higher protein will suit you. In this video James explains at 24:00-25:15 why higher protein will needed sometimes.

"If you're a bodybuilder cutting down to 4 or 5% your protein requirements go up above the normal range"

He references a study that says you need 2.3-3.1g/kg for fat free body mass, I can't find the exact study but essentially this gives an explanation on how some people will higher protein above the normal range.

 

[happyseeker]

@wrtavares With being intolerant to soy, having problems with grains and don´t doing well with nuts can be challenging to enter the bodybuilding lifestyle vegan. Not that it´s impossible, but it comes down to how well you manage the excess of fibre. Maybe rotate between beans, lentils and peas (legumes) for 1-2 weeks and see how your body reacts to it. Eveluate and take action. I made a similiar experiment and (sadly) it was too much for my digestion, spend way too many hours on the toilet, lol. Adding vegetables with higher protein or looking for a chick pea protein powder is also possible (i know you don´t want to go this path, but maybe consider it). And don´t forget : Everyone is different and something may suits for x, but is not fitting for y etc. Kudos to you for trying even when the circumstances are not in your favor, awesome ! Good luck and greetings

 

[wrtavares]

@happyseeker I'm glad it isn't just me! I don't tend to do too well on an abundance of fiber so as you rightly say, the odds are stacked against me.

I think I'm going to see how far I can take the bean and lentil options (peas sometimes aggravate me too, maybe the high glutamate content idk) and see how I get on!

 

[dal]

@wrtavares so idk if this would count as a powder to you but textured pea protein? i personally love it i can incorporate it into my meals like a food.

edit: also i believe gojoman on youtube has videos for recovering from sibo as a vegan

 

[bible4ang]

@wrtavares Hello and welcome to the plantbased side! Very glad you're here to check it out. Given your other requirements, beans are going to be your friends, especially chickpeas and hummus which are very high protein. I highly recommend checking out Simnett Nutrition on Youtube, he just uploaded a video on making your own blackbean tofu which is surprisingly easy:

There are also chickpea and black bean pastas in most supermarkets now as well. To put it bluntly, lectins are a non-issue. People who eat more foods containing lectins actually have some of the best health outcomes in longterm studies. Anyone who tells you to be wary of lectins is probably pushing supplements and is a quack not worth your time listening to.

As someone else mentioned, the main challenge with this approach will be managing overall fiber intake. You can make yourvown versions of more processed plantbased foods, that will require a lot more time. That said, I'm curious about your intolerances, are these actual diagnosed allergies, or celiac disease, or do you not feel "right" after eating these foods? This is something that's very common with people new to plantbased eating, and it could be that your body is not accustomed to these foods, but you can and probably should work on changing that. People who consume whole grains tend to have the best longterm health outcomes, and it's pretty rare to have allergies to grains. You might be interested in the book Fiber Fueled by Dr. Will Bulsiewicz, he talks about food intolerances and how to overcome them. For now, you might consider sticking with your current diet and including small portions of grains or nuts to start getting adjusted to them--just an option.

Some other resources to check out (there are many more but these channels have a lot of food content):

Simnett Nutrition (again highly recommend): https://youtube.com/@Simnettnutrition?si=wsCv4aNcG_z8CsCm

Hench Herbivore: https://youtube.com/@HenchHerbivore?si=qj2KgS3rJMcndeBl

Brian Turner: https://youtube.com/@BrianTurnerOfficial?si=84ME1fx6p65rx7PR

Edit: adding Simon Hill's channel https://youtube.com/@TheProofWithSimonHill?si=91wsFYdlvMRteGjK he doesn't do recipes but goes over nutrition science in depth.

 

[wrtavares]

@bible4ang Thank you for all of the resources, I'll definitely take a look!

In terms of intolerances; the Soya one came about when I tried Soya protein powder after having whey all of my life and I felt horrendous, I then got tested and was intolerant so everything made sense.

As far as grains / celiac goes, I'm not intolerant in the slightest. My background is Italian and have been reared on grains. It was only when I removed them from my diet in an attempt to combat my hayfever allergies (on the recommendation of a good friend) I realised that they were causing most of my MSK pain. My hayfever vanished and my joints felt a lot better. My dad who has suffered with really bad hayfever all of his life was sceptical, tried it himself and was also cured the following season. I then went full keto and my joints felt like I was a child again but it just wasn't sustainable for me due to the lack of sleep.

I've reintroduced grains gradually since and there's without question a correlation between inflammatory symptoms and the amount of grains I eat, so I currently limit to one or two servings a week.

I think my best bet is seeing how far I can push the various bean options before I experience discomfort, and go from there

 

[bible4ang]

@wrtavares Thanks for the additional information! I ask because I have a severe peanut allergy (my doctor said I had the highest level of antibodies they had ever seen) so I always try to clarify an allergy vs intolerance. One can be resolved the other can't. Fiber Fueled has some very helpful information though. Sorry to hear that you can't do soy, that is the highest protein legume. Doesn't mean you can't get sufficient protein without it, it will just take a bit more creativity. Soy allergies are also increasingly common these days and it's really unfortunate.

Your reaction to grain is really interesting though. If I can ask, is that with whole grains like wheat berries, quinoa, oats, etc? Or specific grains? Or is it with processed grain like enriched wheat, all purpose flour, etc.? Or all of the above? I'm glad you're feeling better and figured out what works for you! Very interesting. Just to share my anecdotal experience as well, I had severe asthma as a child (nebulizer, inhaler, etc.) and when I stopped eating all meat and dairy my asthma symptoms resolved as well as some other food sensitivities (eggplant would make me itchy for example, randomly). There is some mixed evidence that dairy and whey causes inflammation and breathing issues, that was definitely my personal experience for what it's worth. I went vegan for the animals but my asthma clearing up was a nice side effect, the peanut allergy is strong as ever though. lol

So it is possible that if you cut out fish and dairy and go fully vegan, give it maybe 5 or 6 months and see how you do with grains. Going vegan might help, it might do nothing for you. For now it seems like beans are a solid plan for sure, beans are great for overall health! And please come back and check in here, especially if you have questions or need recipes. We would love to hear how your experience goes! Even if you don't have good results it's helpful to hear the perspective. Best wishes for you!