Questions about Recovery

[fedya]

I'm wondering what the general experience of folk here is for recovery times. Reason being, I'm caught between wondering whether my slow progress is

(a) natural: this is how long progress takes

(b) caused by not enough calories, (I'm in a slight surples though, and am putting on weight about 0.5lb per week)

(c) I'm a mutant. or maybe just have low hormones or something.

(d) I'm not giving enough time to recover.

A bit about me: I'm 42M, 5'8, and 160lb.

I've a reasonably slight frame (skinny wrists and ankles etc).

I cycle 60 minutes Mon -Fri in my commute, and also work out with weights 4-5 days a week (again, Mon-Fri).

My typical week out is heavy upper/lower mon-tue, body weight exercises, rotator cuff and stretches on wednesday, and then higher rep work lower/upper Thurs-Fri.

Progress is SLOW.Achingly so. It can take me a month to put 5lbs on my bench.

(Stats for 5 reps: 235, 175, 125, 80)

I sleep 7-8 hours a night.

So, assuming I'm not a freak, that I am indeed eating at a slight calorie surplus, what kind of recovery times are you folk allowing for, and what sort of results do you see.

EDIT

Some of your helpful replies have asked for some more detail, so happy to oblige:

DIET:

• My TDEE is ~2800 cal per day (prob a bit over, based on experience at eating at this level for a week or two).
• I typically aim for 3000 cal per day, and may sometimes let that drop to 2500 on one of the weekend days. So I'm in a slight surplus, I think.
• I use MFP to track calories and macros, and invariably eat at least 1g/lb body weight, if not more. my Macros tend to be about 40-50% carbs, and 25-30% fats and protein each. I tend to eat pretty healthily; lots of oats, brown rice, greek yogurt, nuts, avocados, meat, fish, eggs, etc.
• I drink maybe a glass or two of wine once a week, and once every three-four weeks, might have a little more (like half a bottle of wine and a cocktail).

All in all, I think my diet is probably on point, and it's always just a question of whether or not to increase the calories and put up with the extra inches around the waist that immediately follow.

WEEKLY WORKOUT

Monday:

Upper Body Heavy

• Pull ups 3-4 set of max. (~generally 4-5 reps)
• benchpress: 3x5, super set with facepulls 3x20
• OHP 3x5, super set with bent over rows 3x5
• dips 3 sets of max effort (~8-10 reps)
• Cable flys 3x12
• lateral raise drop set 3x12

Tuesday:

Lower Body Heavy

• Pullups
• Squats 3x5
• Deadlifts 2x5
• split squats 3x12
• hanging leg raises or cable crunches 3x20
• hpyerextension 3x20

Wednesday

• pull ups
• rotator cuff cable work 3x20
• shrugs 3x12
• push ups 3x20
• bent over fly 3x12
• db incline 3x12
• bicep curl 3x12
• skull crusher 3x12

Thursday:

• Lower Body Light
• 3x12 squats
• 3x12 front squats
• 3x12 Romanian deadlifts

Friday

Upper Body Light

• Pretty much as Monday, but 3x12 on the barbell work.
• Warm up before and stretching and foam rolling after every workout.

I've been lifting for a little over a year, but had to stop all upper body work for about 7 months due to a rotator cuff injury (except for rehab). My shoulder is fully recovered since May.

My progression on heavy lifts is to aim for 3 sets of 5, then up the weight by 5lb for squats, rows, and deadlifts, and by 2.5lb on bench and OHP. I don't progress if the form sucks absolute ass on more than one rep, but will try to progress if I feel the form was mostly there on all reps. On Db and cable work, I progress once I hit 3 sets of 12 (or 20, if called for), and then work back up to 12 (or 20) on the new weight.

I'm am consistently in the gym at least 4 days a week (holidays and work schedules occasionally take a day away per week). And I bike in every day. Rain, wind, snow.

thanks!

 

[a3yan]

@fedya First, I completely understand your frustration and I waited to respond until you posted your diet and training plans so I could perhaps present you with something useful. Here goes....

First, your diet seems appropriate. Carry on, but don't be afraid to tweak it if you find something that works a bit better for you personally. We're all unique.

Second, it seems to me that you've got a disconnect between what you're doing and what you're measuring. I say this because in your post you're judging progress by your 5-rep weights on the 4 major lifts, yet you're spending an inordinate amount of time doing work that is more hypertrophy-focused, rather than strength-focused. The problem with this is it makes recovery much harder due to the total volume of work. My suggestion would be that you want to measure strength, you should have a program focused on building strength with proper recovery time. With your current program, unless your recovery capabilities are like a 20yo's, I can't imagine coming back to 100% with this schedule.

TL;DR - you're under-recovered and your focus is split.

If you want give pure strength training a try, I'd suggest a 3-day a week program like Mad Cow. It's just the 5 lifts that matter, done often for volume. You'll note that the page has a nice spreadsheet where you can just plug in your numbers and do what you're scheduled to for each training session. Personally, I'm on my 7th cycle and it continues to deliver results each time. YMMV, but best of luck no matter what you decide to do.

 

[paperboat]

@fedya I am mid 30's, lifting for ~15 years w/the past 10 being tracked progression w/maybe a couple of years (at most) down time all together due to injuries, schedule etc.

I wish I could add 5 lbs. to any of the big lifts a month and stay lean!

See my opinion/suggestions below:

(a) natural: this is how long progress takes

• Yes.

(b) caused by not enough calories, (I'm in a slight surples though, and am putting on weight about 0.5lb per week)

• Make sure you are hitting your macros! Protein is key but do not skimp fat or carbs.

(c) I'm a mutant. or maybe just have low hormones or something.

• Get tested for low test?

(d) I'm not giving enough time to recover.

• I suffer from this as well. No advice beyond what I say below.

I lift a lot daily w/a PPL program that is very high volume, sleep maybe 6.5 hours average per night and maintain a small caloric deficit. I see progress but it is slow. I listen to my body and adjust daily calories and workout accordingly. Usually the adjustments are minor like eating 50 xtra grams of carbs, not increasing weight for a specific lift, cutting a set out here and there, taking a nap, etc. The same goes for if I am feeling good i.e. dropping some carbs/fat/calories, going for a PR off schedule, walk for an extra 30 mins, etc.

That is what I recommend. Track your calories and macros. Make changes on how you feel. Keep at it.

Again, I am relatively experienced and this all comes natural to me now a days. There are weeks where I am stagnate but I just stick to the plan. It all works out.

Edit for formatting and removing some stuff and adding other stuff.

 

[xxdarkelementalsongxx]

@fedya Disclaimer - I'm 35M, 5'11, 180, been lifting about a year. Not an expert by any means, so grain of salt, YMMV, etc. For what its worth though, I've also found progress very slow, my coach assures me its perfectly normal at my age and that you don't want to try to go too big too fast and risk injury.

How long have you been lifting for, and what sort of program are you on? Sometimes you need to lower the weight and focus on volume to make progress when you've stalled. Alan Thrall explains it well in this video

Also, how many calories a day are you eating at the moment? IIFYM calculator suggests with a 60 minute cycle and weight training 5 days a week your TDEE is around 2800 cal.

Its also possible that you're training too often and not giving yourself enough time to recover. Maybe you would benefit from training only every second day?

 

[timhieuvetrello]

@fedya

My typical week out is heavy upper/lower mon-tue, body weight exercises, rotator cuff and stretches on wednesday, and then higher rep work lower/upper Thurs-Fri.

This is a pretty opaque description of your training habits. I'd like more details. Movements. Sets/Rep. Method of progression. How long you've been doing it. Consistency. That sort of stuff.

 

[smm]

@fedya Sounds like you need to eat more, mate. You getting 1+ gram protein / lb. body weight? Try increasing it if no.