Should one be able to do proper swings (i.e. get through all the programming exercises) on their first practice session?

[danparkhouse95]

tl;dr Could anyone maybe share their stories of how long it took them to progress through each programming exercise?

I know I'm over thinking things, but I have a few basic questions:

I used to deadlift pavel style daily, so I'm fairly comfortable (though out of practice) with the hip hinge mechanics of the swing. That being said, how long does one typically spend working through these "programming exercises" (the deadlift, the hike pass/pendulum forward, etc) before one progresses to full swings? As an immediate example, should I expect to be two arm swinging on my first practice?

I know to never train to failure, always leave something in tank, but I mean, technically these programming exercises assume failure to begin with -- you wouldn't be doing them if you weren't trying to optimize your suboptimal form.

I admit, I have always had the doctrine of erring on the side of caution, but I'm so cautious I haven't even picked up a kettlebell yet. I've been practicing box squats and wall squats and squat jumps in preparation.

 

[dawn16]

@danparkhouse95 IMO you are unlikely to get hurt doing 10 swings with a 1 pood. Specially if you've pulled 315 for reps as you say. Your form might not be perfect but that's what practice is for.

I posted a vid of my first day of S&S swings (with a 1.5 pood) here and got some good feedback and proceeded to tighten up my form.

For my first session's TGUs I did a couple reps with a shoe, then a couple reps with 12kg. A few sessions later I was using the 16kg for TGUs.

You don't have to rush, but don't hold your self back by second guessing yourself at every turn either.

 

[danparkhouse95]

@dawn16 315 was a few years ago in college when I had access to a gym. I haven't done any powerlifting in years, so thats why I'm a bit nervous.

thanks for the encouragement. I am doing a lot of second guessing, for sure.

great Idea posting your video for feedback (even better idea putting a neat soundtrack to it) I might have to try that.

 

[dawn16]

@danparkhouse95 You can do it, bro. I believe in you!

 

[rpd26]

@danparkhouse95 Swings are easy enough. Once you get the hang of them, you should be able to just jump right in. Practice is going to be the most important thing, as th more familiar you are with the movement, the easier it is to do while tired.

This is why simple and sinister is relatively low reps. Your form should breakdown a great deal after 10 reps. Lots of rest, and slow easy practice. Once you perfect the form, you up the intensity.

 

[dawn16]

@danparkhouse95 You're probably good to go, but it wouldn't hurt to do the other drills on the side for a bit. Maybe toss in a couple towel swings before you start your swing session to auto correct.

 

[huey507]

@danparkhouse95 I'm on my third week of S&S. For my first week I did the warm ups some deadlifts and the stretches. The straddle was ridiculously hard for me but hang in there because your body will come around and the results are amazing. This is the first real hard exercise I have had since a back surgery 2 years ago and my back feels amazing now. I'm still doing the 5x10 swings and I'll up it to 7x10 when I feel ready no rush.

I noticed the swings really started to click the end of my second week so at some point the only way to really learn is to practice but if the warm up wipes you out don't rush.

I have my daughter video my swings, I wouldn't try a mirror.

 

[danparkhouse95]

@huey507 Seriously though, the QL straddle is murderous. I have great range in the 90/90, but I'm almost unable to sit in the straddle position without having my back rounded. And the weird thing is, I seem to have good hamstring flexibility otherwise.

So, thanks for the encouragement on the straddle, because after doing it once, i suspected i was going to die.

 

[helpingfamilies]

@danparkhouse95 Bang on that shit. Your hands and biceps (from gripping the bell) will hurt far worse than the rest of ya to start. Just do 5x5 till ya get it down and move on to 1h swings as soon as your form is up to in and progress from there IMO.

Don't worry about nailing all the stretches either, they will come in time.

 

[front_street]

@danparkhouse95 Lighter weight, then move up when you have the mechanics.

 

[shenanigansandtoast]

@danparkhouse95 I'd just jump in, maybe at a slightly lower rep rate, and if you've got a mirror that's always handy. A double handed swing is pretty secure in general.

 

[busywriting]

@danparkhouse95 A "proper" swing is, IMO, a swing with OK form, where the basics of hip hinge, glute activation and shoulder packing are covered. Honestly, this takes maybe one or two sessions with a trainer or, depending on your dedication, maybe a week, two weeks top (6-7 sessions) of practice by yourself. It gets easier as your hips loosen up, and after a while muscle memory kicks in and it gets automatic. This goes for both the GS and the HS swing.
Same goes for TGU. 4-5 sessions of dedicated practice, and you´re good to go. No need to overthink it.

 

[danparkhouse95]

working on simple and sinister, by the way

 

[dantheman1999]

@danparkhouse95 Then your good. I mean without taking a class or having an instructor, there's only one way to learn right?

 

[danparkhouse95]

@dantheman1999 As it turns out, the basic circuits of goblet squats, hip bridges and halos was enough to wipe me out before I even got to practice any swings or get ups. I only made it through 2 cicuits with a one pooder (i'm a guy). I'll probably just try to master the warmups and the stretches this week ( I have great range in the 90/90, but the QL straddle is almost unbearable for me) and save the rest for next week.

 

[dantheman1999]

@danparkhouse95 That's awesome! Whats the rush?

 

[danparkhouse95]

@dantheman1999 Hahaha, no rush, really. Having never worked with a partner or trainer (that subscribed to pavel's methodology), I never know if I'm going to fast or too slow.

For instance, I used to do pavel's bodyweight exercises (one armed pushup and one legged squat progressions) rather religiously for quite a long time. I developed a lot of strength but never managed to get all the way to a full one legged squat or a full parralel one armed pushup. I always seem to hit a plateau at a certain angle. I met someone else who claimed to have gotten it in a month, so I have no idea if I'm going at the right pace for my strength level or if I'm holding myself back because I'm misunderstanding some kind of critical detail. Similarly, I followed his powerlifting regimen (deadlifts and bench press exclusively every day) -- it was really weird, my deadlift was phenomenal, I could do 2 sets of 5 reps of 315 lbs daily and still had plenty left in the tank, but my bench press was just phenomenally shitty and never got any better. I have never benched more than like 135.

 

[hummelav]

@danparkhouse95 I don't think you're supposed to be using really heavy weights for the warm up exercises. If you're wiped out you might be going too heavy. Not sure it's save to go heavy for halos btw. Warm ups takes me 5 minutes max.

If I feel like going heavy with squats I do sets of double front squats after the swings and TGU.

 

[danparkhouse95]

@hummelav Its not that I was totally drained, its just that I didn't suspect I'd be able to do the primary training session in good form and still leave some strength in reserve. Its just that the movements are very new, and I'm using a waay more energy than needed to get the positions right. I did it again today and made it through the warmups without too much problem.

also, I cant go any lighter, I dont have a lighter kettlebell than one pood, so toughening up is the only option.

 

[hummelav]

@danparkhouse95 Cool cool. Stick with it and in about three months time you'll be amazed at how much stronger you'll feel. Just commit yourself, have fun, and listen to your body. Success guaranteed!