Snatch --> double C&J --> double C&P --> double snatch

[shawnmcg]

I did 25 minutes of snatches (16 kg) this morning. It almost killed me, but it was awesome.

I use a 15 sec. work/ 15 sec. rest protocol. So that was 400 snatches (16 kg) in 25 minutes this morning (speed = 8 per 15 sec.) (8 snatches, 15 sec. rest, alternate hands).

I now consider myself having "graduated" from the 16 kg bell. Tomorrow, I start with the 20 kg bell.

Step 1
Speed = 6 per 15 sec.
Day 1 10 min.
Day 2 15 min.
Day 3 20 min.
Day 4 25 min.

Step 2
Speed = 7 per 15 sec.
Day 1 10 min.
Day 2 15 min.
Day 3 20 min.
Day 4 25 min.

Step 3
Speed = 8 per 15 sec.
Day 1 10 min.
Day 2 15 min.
Day 3 20 min.
Day 4 25 min.

The increase in speed (snatches per 15 seconds) really makes it fun, combined with the daily increase in time.

At the moment, I only own two 16 kg bells and two 20 kg bells. (I abandoned my old 24 kg and my 28 kg when I moved house most recently. Don't ask. I hope the prior landlord knows what to do with them. I wonder if he can move them?)

After "graduating" from single 20 kg snatches (8 per 15 sec., 15 sec. rest, alternating hands, for 25 min.), what's the next step?

Double 16 kg Clean & Jerk
Double 20 kg Clean & Jerk
Double 16 kg Clean & Press
Double 20 kg Clean & Press
Double 16 kg Snatch
Double 20 kg Snatch

I plan to use the same 15 sec. work/ 15 sec. rest protocol and the same time durations (10 min., 15 min., 20 min. and 25 min.).

As for speed, the C&J will be slower than the snatch, and the C&P will be even slower.

Instead of speeds of... for single snatches...

6 snatches/ 15 sec.
7 snatches/ 15 sec.
8 snatches/ 15 sec.

...I'm thinking of speeds of... for double C&Ps...

3 C&P/ 15 sec.
4 C&P/ 15 sec.
5 C&P/ 15 sec.

...and then speeds of... for double C&Js...

4 C&J/ 15 sec.
5 C&J/ 15 sec.
6 C&J/ 15 sec.

I'm not sure about speed for the double snatches. Do you think C&J will be faster than C&P? I think C&P will be slowest.

Also, I see a natural progression from single snatch --> double C&J --> double C&P --> double snatch. Am I wrong? What would you recommend?

After graduating from double 20 kg snatches, I guess I'll have to buy a 24 kg bell and go back to Step 1, above.

Thoughts?

Sources: I think I've read every kettlebell book and website that's out there... at least in English. I've been a regular member of two officially-licensed kettlebell gyms. Most recently, I studied Olympic deadlifts, Olympic squats and general calisthenics at my local gym here with a personal trainer. I can deadlift 110% of my bodyweight for a normal amount of reps/ sets.)

ps. Concerning calluses, I've built up my calluses over the past few weeks. This is CRITICALLY important. I use a callus razor after showers (when skin is saturated with moisture) to scrape 'em down. I use Corn Husker Lotion from Amazon all day at the office. Your calluses will be your limiting factor. Your calluses will bleed, and it will gross out your wife.

 

[ghackman]

@shawnmcg While 25 mins with a 12kg or 16kg is achievable it’ll start to become unworkable with a 20kg or 24kg.

You’ve made great progress so far but you cannot expect to maintain that progress as you increase to load it become exponentially more difficult.

A good thing to consider is volume. Now this isn’t an exact science but you can roughly equate certain sessions based on volume and density.

Volume = Reps x Sets x Load

7/7 x 25 mins x 16kg = 5600kg

Density = Volume / Time

5600 / 25 mins = 224 kg/min

5/5 x 10 x 32 kg = 3200kg - 320 kg/min
Or
10/10 x 5 x 24kg = 2400 kg - 480 kg/min

Now anyone who’s tried these can attest that these are very different sessions so comparison is difficult.

Your other variable you can manipulate is Rest.

You are doing 15 On 15 Off x 50 in a 25 min session. Alternatively, you might consider doing 6-8 Snatches Left, H2H (Hand to Hand swing change) then 6-8 Snatches right and park the bell. This should equate to roughly 30 On/ 30 Off.

As someone currently snatching three times per week myself preparing for the SFG-1 in Chicago in 5 weeks... you are entirely correct hand maintenance is paramount. To be honest I don’t think there is much point in snatching this much in a week long term. You’ll wreck your hands and it’s an excess of the hip hinge movement pattern.

Great for developing Snatch technique in the short term but not a great long term programme.

Also jumps of 5 mins are massive!

Here is a copy of my current programme. Note Monday’s progress toward the SFG-1 test criteria, it’s slowly progressively more difficult and importantly realistic and achievable. That should be your primary focus of any training programme.

Test Day @ 24kg - Monday

Test Volume - Progressively Density

Week 1: 6/6 x 9 mins = 108 Snatches
Volume = 2592kg, Density = 288 kg/min

Week 2: 7/7 x 8 mins = 112 Snatches
Volume = 2688kg, Density = 336 kg/min

Week 3: 8/8 x 7 mins = 112 Snatches
Volume =2688kg, Density = 384 kg/min

Week 4: 9/9 x 6 mins = 108 Snatches
Volume = 2592kg, Density = 432 kg/min

Week 5: 10/10 x 5 mins = 100
Volume = 2400kg, Density = 480 kg/min

Week 6: 10/10 x 5 mins
Volume = 2400kg, Density = 480 kg/min

Heavy Snatch - Wednesday

5 x every 30 secs for 20 mins @ 24kg

200% Volume = 4800 kg
50% Density = 240 kg / min

Mixed Session - Friday

10/10 x 9 mins @ 20kg -

150% Volume = 3600 kg
75% Density = 400 kg / min

As you can see other than my test day, I have a heavy day on Wednesday. The goal of this session is either a heavier load than test weight or double the volume over a much longer period to make this is less challenging cardiovascularly but still snatch some serious volume in total.

If I chose to use the 28kg it might look something like this.

3/3 x 12-15 mins @ 28kg

Friday is a mixed session with bit more volume but slightly less density as the goals. A lighter weight should be used.

So for my programme the general format is.

Monday = Hard Session - Medium Load
Wednesday = Medium Session - Heavy Load
Friday = Light Session - Light Load

You could swap the days about slightly but I think the light, medium, heavy approach is optimal for something your training three times a week.

Also notice how the variables of volume, load and density change as one increases the other two decrease. That is extremely important!

 

[shawnmcg]

@ghackman Nice, man. Thank you. Great comments.

 

[juancarlos]

@shawnmcg That's a very steep progression. Planning is great but unless you are experienced in programming, be ready to make changes.

There are no Olympic deadlifts of Olympic squats. Are you talking about barbells?

 

[ghackman]

@shawnmcg No problem, I’m happy to help.

Something to maybe consider doing once you can snatch the 20kg for 10/10 x 5-10 mins or some similar target you set yourself.

Check out Offset Complexes. Eg.

One of my favourites. You could use your 16kg and 20 kg

Pendulum Swing + Clean x 3
Press x 5
Squat x 10

Rest for either the same amount of time that has taken you or 2-3x that up to 3 mins depending on how challenging it is. Perfect form should be the goal, quality over speed. Speed hides need...

Pendulum Swing + Clean x 3 basically means you do a swing then a clean then from the Rack position go back into a swing then clean again and repeat one more time before moving onto the press. As a trainer I find people’s clean is often their weakest movement and have rushed passes it onto the Snatch because it’s “cooler”

The swing before the clean reminds the body and mind of the muscles that are supposed to be used in the clean. It’s a swing that finishes in the rack position.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

 

[juancarlos]

@ghackman You need to click reply under the comment to reply to it. Otherwise it can be difficult to know who you are talking to. So far there aren't too many comments but if there were, it'd be confusing.

 

[ghackman]

@juancarlos Ah ok, first few time commenting / replying. Didn’t realise I was leaving a separate comment rather than a reply. Thanks

 

[shawnmcg]

Thank you for your comments, all.

I've reduced the daily increase in time. Snatching the 20kg is #heavyfun. Glorious, but I think smaller daily increases in time will suit my 43-year-old body better.

Speed = 6 per 15 sec.
Day 1 10 minutes
Day 2 13 minutes
Day 3 16 minutes
Day 4 19 minutes
Day 5 22 minutes
Day 6 25 minutes

I've read that doing snatches for much more than 25 minutes doesn't really do much.

After that, still with a single 20kg bell, I go up to 7 snatches per 15 sec. Same progression. Then up to 8 snatches per 15 sec.

So my question today: does doing snatches faster build muscle? More snatches. Less time. Is that similar to going up in weight?

Thank you all, in advance.

 

[ghackman]

@shawnmcg Re-read my first comment about Volume and Density. Short answer is no, increasing the reps by a couple is not going to do much compared to a heavier load in terms of muscular development. It will become much more cardiovascular with increasing density - ie more reps

Listen mate, snatching 6 times a week is mental.

Increasing time by 3 mins as the week progresses is insane and completely unrealistic.

You WILL fatigue, also you aren’t giving yourself sufficient time to adapt and recovery between sessions. In fact you have no recovery!

http://deansomerset.com/recovery-adaptation-missing-piece-training-programs/

Your programme is unworkable mate. What are your goals? What are you trying to achieve?

As I mentioned I’m training for the SFG-1 which has a snatch test in it. I would never consider training the Snatch six times a week. Even a kettlebell sport athlete working on Snatching for 10 mins wouldn’t consider training the Snatch 6 times a week.

Also kettlebell sport all about endurance and they only do their long cycle and snatch events for 10 mins! They describe 30 mins as a marathon event!!!!! If that is what appeals to you you should be looking at KB sport.

https://breakingmuscle.co.uk/uk/fitness/kettlebell-sport-what-it-is-and-how-to-get-started-0

There is no point in snatching for 25 mins using hard style technical to be honest it’s totally counterproductive to the purpose. You’d reap much better results using a heavier bell for less duration.

As I said previously, once you can do:

10 Left & 10 Right Every Minute for 10 mins

Go heavier, once your up to a 24kg you should be looking at starting using double bells.

A good programme should cover lots of movement patterns rather than just a hip hinge.

Swing, Deadlift, Snatch (Hip Hinge/Dominant)
Squat/Lunge (Knee Dominant Movement)
Press / Push Up (Push Horizontal & Vertical)
Pull Up / Row ( Pull Horizontal & Vertical)

Sorry mate but I don’t think you have the requisite knowledge to write your own programmes.

The complexes I mentioned before are well worth a try. Good luck

 

[shawnmcg]

@ghackman Good, good. Thank you for the feedback.

Will re-read and adjust program.

Thanks again.