Step up snatch for forefoot training?

[y0ung1996]

I train with kettlebells so I can hike better. I have learned over the years that more muscles means more enjoyment when hiking. But I have noticed that kettlebells and barbells don't really train the forefoot very well. I really need to get a box and do step ups. They just seem so boring and I don't want to spend the money and find the space for a box in my house.

I was listening to "The Hammer Cast Ep. 431: Clif Harski on Kettlebells as a Secret Weapon for Forging Elite Athleticism" and there I heard Clif talking about this whole forefoot training thing and the step up snatch.

Now I listen to Dan John a lot and he talks about risk and reward.

Here is a video of a guy doing the exercise:

Do you think this a smart thing to be doing?

It could get me more excited to get something to step up on and actually do the thing I probably should be doing.

I could see myself doing regular step ups and then adding this in like the icing on the cupcake.

Any other hiking or forefoot training ideas would be appreciated!

 

[monstershouter]

@y0ung1996 I hike quite a bit. I also love leg training and have achieved decent unilateral leg strength (I did a 64kg pistol squat per leg recently). Here are my thoughts:

Most of the benefit of the exercise you linked to will be from the step up portion (where weight can be varied with single or double bells overhead, racked, or at sides). I don’t really see the snatch portion providing much relative benefit but if it is “fun” for you then why not do that as well.

Don’t forget the eccentric component which is key to keeping knees healthy on steep descents. Step downs are a great way to train this, where you start from the box and lower until you can lightly tap (not an uncontrolled plop) your unloaded leg on the ground. This forces a controlled descent and minimizes or eliminates assistance from the unloaded leg. And remember both step ups and step downs can and should be done not just with the unloaded leg behind the box but to the side and to the front as well. This will aid with balance and stability from different angles.

Apart from the step-ups/step-downs, forefoot training starts with being intentional about how you use your feet. That means not just following arbitrary rules like “weight on heels” or “tripod foot” or “knees over toes” but rather trying to always be conscious of how you are distributing weight on each foot and having the dexterity to control this under load, shifting balance depending on the application. Kind of like a mind-muscle connection thing (but obviously more than just muscles).

In most cases you_ do_ want to squat balanced and keep weight mid foot (at least on flat ground), but sometimes you may need to be balanced more on your heels and sometimes you need to be balanced on the forefoot. Kickstand squats, sissy squats, “toe squats,” and other variations where you load without a flat foot can help. You can also practice forefoot bias on flat footed movements like pistol squats, Cossack squats, even deadlift and pull variations.

Finally, don’t neglect calves and shins (anterior tibialis). A little bit can go a long way here but it all helps in mastering control and building resiliency across the entire lower leg which helps with endurance and injury prevention when hiking.

 

[y0ung1996]

@monstershouter Steps downs - great idea

 

[fbgah]

@y0ung1996

Any other hiking or forefoot training ideas would be appreciated!

The KB staples (swings, cleans, jerks, snatches etc) all include a forefoot element. If you do them with a light bell and focus on the ball of your foot, and knee tracking, that may become more apparent.

For greater emphasis, consider:
- lunges (esp step forward, twisting &/ cradling a weight for bonus difficulty)
- single leg RDL
- pistol squat
- ATG 'split squat' (actually a v deep lunge)

(Source: for a long time I had one 'flat foot'. It's improving thanks to these and other exercises, and these are the ones that really feel a lot harder, sometimes to the point of causing some knee discomfort. on the flat foot; that's because it's not stabilizing as well as my 'good foot'.)

 

[y0ung1996]

@fbgah Thank you

 

[walkerdavis]

@y0ung1996 I know a few things about that step up, the vid you posted has a gentleman doing it in a way that I'm not a fan of.

Peep this

You'll see my set up is squattier, and the movement is propulsive up via the forefoot (the linked vid in orig post has the guy doing a swing snatch, heel stays glued to ground)

When driving through the forefoot you simply get more quad, and lower leg contribution. Doing it from a deadstop in a more vertical snatch (vs the swing snatch) will accentuate the feeling.

Whether it translates "better" to hiking, meh, probably not. Beneficially you get more practice lifting a leg, but a step up would be more specific for the concentric portion of traveling up the mtns.

Most people commenting on it haven't ever actually done it, which is pretty comical. And they certainly haven't coached people doing it.

Most specific for hiking would be longer duration step up and step down, not snatches IMO

 

[learnandbloom]

@y0ung1996 @anaju-power gave you a great answer.

You need them “strong yogi-toes.” That’s what my first yoga instructor used to tell us. I do a shit ton of hindu-squats or toe squats as my warm-up.

For more dynamic training, I tend to go with my steel mace. I don’t quite do “flow” type workouts but, I’ll chain moves together. There is something nice about moving a weight around your body and doing some simple footwork. Even holding the warrior pose and doing drop 360s makes me very aware of my feet.