5/3/1 For Oldsters - Part 2 - Don’t abuse the “+” sets

[dawn16]

@hldawson3 There are spreadsheets around maybe someone can share, but I'm using Big Lifts Pro on my android. It calcs out your 531 program based on your inputs for training maxs, and tracks the workouts. Not the quickest app, but it has worked well for me.

 

[faithful_blacksmith]

@timhieuvetrello Great series. Keep it up.

My own experience is to, as advised by Wendler, have a number in mind for the + sets. As soon as I reach what I want, I´m done. Obviously it should be very challenging. If I´m on a very good day, I do one more, if on a bad one, one less. If in a very bad one, just getting the prescribed reps is always good work.

That usually meant 7-8 reps on the 5+ set, 5 on the 3+, 3 on 1+.

Execept for deadlifts, which I didn´t really take over 5, even in the 5+ set.

A suggestion for the series is a write-up on overwarm singles/PAP.

 

[timhieuvetrello]

@faithful_blacksmith I've never tried those, so I can't speak about them personally. Do you use them mainly for confidence or do you think they have a training effect (beyond the mental ones)?

 

[faithful_blacksmith]

@timhieuvetrello Wow, tough one. I´d like to answer the mental effect is a very important training effect.

I´m not entirely sure how it works, but it seems to. Check this review and references therein.

My experience using a hard single, about at the training max, thus quite lower than the true 1RM and "easily" achievable, is that it both greatly prepares me mentally for the following days when I´ll be repping that weight out and also makes me really tight and confident for the following work sets. It just feels lighter.

It´s best used during a bulk, or near a plateau.

I usually don´t do it for deads, except when I want to test myself a little in the 5+ day. Also might not do it on 1+ squats day. Bench and ohp I do it most of the time.

 

[marenity]

@timhieuvetrello Wanted to mention in this thread, in case people aren't aware, Wendler has recently released Beyond 5/3/1.

It has some interesting ideas about extending the volume in 5/3/1 by doing what he calls "joker sets". (Maybe we're not the optimal demographic for that, but anyway...)

On the downside, it has so many different variations on the program, some readers might end up with option anxiety trying to pick which version of the program to run. For me, it was cool to read through all the options to get a sense of how "programming" works in general.

 

[jesusdaughter155]

@marenity i've been running basic 531 for 8 cycles now. I figure when it stops working, then I'll look to add some of the cooler stuff in beyond 531. But why mess with it when it's working?

I really feel that for me, the joker sets are about patience and willingness to not push it. I'm not competing, i'm not aiming for a date, it doesn't matter if I pull 315 this month or 3 months from now. But that's just me trying to keep my ego from writing checks my body might not be able to cash yet.

 

[timhieuvetrello]

@marenity I mentioned that book in the initial thread. I don't do joker sets myself, but on press I actually do something similar to first set last (another option in Beyond 5/3/1.) Generally speaking, the options in Beyond 5/3/1 are the sort of things that you might look at after a year on the basic program.

 

[benny594]

@timhieuvetrello As someone on my 4th cycle of 5/3/1, I have only found to have an issue with my deadlift in regards to + sets.

 

[ffm1967]

@timhieuvetrello This is a great post, and as someone who will be beginning 531 in the next month or two, is a great read for me. Thanks!

 

[dawn16]

@timhieuvetrello First: I agree with you 100%. You should always leave some reps in the tank, depending on how you feel. If you can't figure this out before you fail your last rep, this means you probably don't know your limits - yet - this can be learned with time.

Second: For 531, you have to eat a truck load of food at least four times per day to make progress. Did you?

Third: Wendler says in the 531 book that every training you should be in stellar form/recovery, if you're not in stellar form: just do 531 with no "plus set" and no assistance exercises - go home, you can make it up next time!

 

[timhieuvetrello]

@dawn16 I did not eat on that schedule, and I didn't eat what I'd consider a truckload. That said, I still ate plenty, and got more than enough protein. I'm pretty careful about my diet all the time, and every few months I monitor my diet in exacting detail for a week or two as a regular audit to make sure I'm still on track. A decent kitchen scale is probably the best single piece of weight lifting equipment you can ever buy.