Advice needed on maintaining muscle while cutting without high protein intake

[mygaurdianangel15]

I'm 29 (M), 5'8", 172 lbs and seems like I'm around 25% body fat range (looking at pictures)

I'm not obese but I'm overweight by 5-10 pounds. I am an active person (cardio/hiit 5 days a week). Along with cardio, I have started lifting weights (just some chest, biceps, shoulders, back movements alternate days) for the last 4 months with very minimal protein intake and gained some muscle. While I have some muscle, I also have a belly and fat in other regions. To get toned, I started a training program (LULU split) with recomp as my goal but I'm gaining weight each week (heard it's so hard to track recomp) and I realized I will not like myself if I get any fatter (I might need to switch my shirt size to L as all my M sized clothes are getting tighter with my belly visible lol). So, I'm planning to cut first, get to my ideal weight (160lbs?) and then think about bulking up evenly from there. In this process, I'd also like to not lose whatever little muscle I have currently. So, I need some help on how to deal with this situation?

Basically, I'd like to reduce my bf% and get a toned physique, nothing fancy -- just decent chest, arms, back and legs with no belly. I have three questions

1. Am I thinking right to cut first?
   
2. While eating in a deficit (1880 cals), along with my cardio, I'm planning to do Basic Beginner Program from fitness wiki (modified GSLP) to maintain my strength and muscle so I can jump onto more comprehensive program when I want to bulk. Can I follow this routine while dieting/cutting?
3. During these last two weeks, being a vegan, I found it very difficult to get to 170g of protein per day (without overeating) even after getting ~90g of it from pea protein powder. Before this, I was barely eating 50g of protein per day so I found this unsustainable for my current lifestyle and I felt 100g is something I can do and then increase it gradually. Would it be ok to preserve/gain some muscle while cutting if I take ~100-120g protein per day?

Help!

 

[worriedmom1968]

@mygaurdianangel15 170g is too much. Aim for 120-130g. 1.6g/kg is all you need.

Anything over 18-20% yeah I’d say most people would choose to cut first.

You’ll still be around 20% BF at 160lb if you are truly at 25% now. To lose the belly you will want to aim for 10-15%. Which would put your goal weight somewhere around 150lb. You will also build some muscle if you’re just starting out, so 155lb would probably be a good initial goal.

 

[mygaurdianangel15]

@worriedmom1968 I see, thanks. While in deficit, is this a good routine to follow https://thefitness.wiki/routines/r-fitness-basic-beginner-routine/ to help build muscle as I lose fat?

 

[coillteglas]

@mygaurdianangel15 This cuts to my soul dude!! I've been in a deficit for a year now and even with less than 100g protein some days I've built muscle. 6'1 215lbs sw to currently 185 but goal is around 170 then reassess from there. I ran a PPLPPL for most of the year but am much happier now doing PPL just 3 days a week and I started running 3 other days. I'm not thicc daddy but proof it's definitely possible to maintain and even build muscle on low protein and a deficit.

Can't wait for the day I can eat in a surplus again, lift heavy and focus on size but for now my goal is still to kill fat then slowly put on muscle while staying lean. If it takes another year to get to a starting point I'm happy with I'll be ok with that right now since I've seen progress. Definitely take progress pics, when the scale is stalling I'll compare older pics to my current physique and it really helps me trust the process. Best of luck in smashing those goals!!

 

[mygaurdianangel15]

@coillteglas Great progress dude! Keep going I want to create a routine where I do some lifting for 3 days and leave the rest of 2/3 days for my cardio/hiit. Which program did you follow specifically? I'm considering this one https://thefitness.wiki/routines/r-fitness-basic-beginner-routine/ with day A - rows, chest press, squat; day B - chin ups, ohp, deadlift

I plan to do it A, cardio, B, hiit, A, cardio/hiit, rest

and in addition, on each of the lift days, I plan to add some assistance work listed in https://thefitness.wiki/routines/5-3-1-for-beginners/#Main_Lifts_Sets_and_Reps, basically one exercise each from Push, Pull, Legs and do it for 50-100 reps.

Do you suggest anything different?

 

[coillteglas]

@mygaurdianangel15 Thanks!! Those look great honestly, a few years back I did stronglifts 5x5 program and built some good muscle but it was tough on my body!! This time I started with Athlean X beginner program for 3 months just to get moving again and then I found a reddit comment with this simple workout

https://imgur.com/a/0KeZloB

and that's what I've stuck to and enjoy. Just modified it a little bit to use what I have at home(dumbbells and a squat rack). I've gone up in weight on the exercises little by little but not really focused on it or expecting a ton of strength gains while still in a deficit. I'd just like to maintain while I lose fat, so this volume seems good. For sure I will really ramp up lifting heavier and change the gameplan when I can hit my weight loss goal. Slow and steady for me, I also herniated a disc in my back squatting around November so I swapped in lunges instead.

 

[mygaurdianangel15]

@coillteglas This program sounds good as well. I just want to lift weights 3 times a week until I reach my goal weight. I was looking into PPL but it seems like doing PPL once will only hit each muscle group once a week which is why I went with Phrak's GSLP which has more frequency and I can even add accessory lifts to get some isolation movements if I have more time and energy so thought this is more flexible.

 

[baongoc1990]

@mygaurdianangel15 1.6kg, 0.8lb lmb is based on studies on people who eat animal protons. It's not our cohort.

The high fiber in a protein rich vegan diet prevent the complete break down of some, not all of, aminos required whilst in a deficit. No studies have been done to give correct ratios as of yet or at least that I'm am aware of.

I have cut lean a dozen times, natural, I can say higher protons have worked better for preserving muscle built at that time.

The best way to retain lmb when in a deficit is to do it slowly, 0.5 lb pw, whilst training with intensity using resistance training. Every 5-6wks use two weeks to find your new maintenance and wash off any diet fatigue, then craic back on. When you have done this a few times and have Kcal data you can use 1 wk to break depending on mental strength.

Cronometer and the tdde calculator will help so much.

It's a great process and when you succeed its another great experience of life and you will know you have some new tools to play with.

Getting lean is hard and a tough challenge for amyone but you can do it. It propa good fun.

 

[jakob1997]

@baongoc1990 I am going 1.1 gram of protein per lb bw and gaining muscle . Is that too high?

 

[mygaurdianangel15]

@baongoc1990 Thanks for the insights. Is 100-120g per day good enough to maintain muscle while cutting?

Also, can I do a very basic beginner routine like this https://thefitness.wiki/routines/r-fitness-basic-beginner-routine/ to incorporate resistance training along with cardio for muscle maintenance/gains?

 

[jota05]

@mygaurdianangel15 BCAA’s