Body part split better than upper/lower?

[michaelsouby]

I've been lifting for quite a few years, recently used the Upper/Lower scheme for 1 year, but I stalled. I'm thinking about going back to the 4 day split. What do you think about the below program?

Progression on the work sets is to add weight when I reach top of the rep range on all sets.

Day 1: Back, biceps

Deadlifts 3 x 6-8 (+ 3 warmup sets 10/8/3 reps)

Weighted pullups 3 x 6-8

Barbell rows 3 x 6-8

Cable rows 3 x 8-10

V-bar pulldowns 2 x 8-10

Barbell curls 3 x 6-8

Dumbbell curls 3 x 8-10

Day 2: Chest, triceps

Bench press 3 x 6-8 (+ 3 warmup sets 10/8/3 reps)

Dumbbell incline press 3 x 6-8

Dumbbell flyes 3 x 8-10

Weighted dips (torso upright) 3 x 6-8

Lying triceps extensions 3 x 8-10

Triceps pushdowns 3 x 8-10

Day 3: Light cardio

Day 4: Quads, hams, calves

Squats 4 x 6-8 (+ 3 warmup sets 10/8/3 reps)

Leg presses 3 x 8-10

Leg extensions 3 x 12-15

Romanian deadlifts 3 x 8-10

Leg curls 3 x 8-10

Standing calf raises 3 x 10-12

Seated calf raises 3 x 12-15

Day 5: Delts, traps, abs

Seated dumbbell presses 3 x 6-8 (+ 3 warmup sets 10/8/3 reps)

Side lateral raises 3 x 10-12

Bent-over lateral raises 3 x 10-12

Barbell shrugs 4 x 8-10

Hanging leg raises 3 x amrap

Weighted crunches 3 x 12-15

Day 6 & 7: Light cardio or off

 

[ssun]

@michaelsouby I've been training consistently for 4 years now. I started late in life and never resistance trained until I was 32 years old and after going on a huge diet where I lost 150lbs and went from >30% bf to 9% at my lightest.

From that point, I felt like I was too skinny and that's what got me interested in lifting weights vs just doing cardio all the time.

I gotta say, in these 4 years I've done PPL, Upper/Lower, Full Body, Arnold Split, etc. etc. Did a year of 5/3/1 BBB as well. All that being said, I still find that I make the best progress overall when I do a really super basic bro split. Chest on Monday, back on Tuesday, legs Wednesday etc. etc. I give myself an hour (the time I have) and just smash the muscle for that hour. I don't know man, I know they say the pump and soreness are not indicators of hypertrophy, but for me I really only feel like I'm making progress when I chase pumps and soreness. That's what gets me to grow. I do agree that ultimately everything works, but I also think there's certain people, maybe a lot of people, that would actually benefit from just doing one hard session per muscle a week over the general recommendations of 2x-3x weekly. Maybe this is an age thing? I'm not sure, but the longer I'm in this game, the more I realize that the only people that should pay attention to studies and optimality are people that have been lifting less than a year. Once you go beyond that, I really feel like you're on your own to find what works for you because from what I've seen, this shit varies pretty wildly from person to person. I think everything works because in some cases it might actually take everything to grow. I mean like, maybe you do one split or style for some time, then switch to something else, so on and so forth. Perhaps in a couple years I'll find that full body 3x a week is what works best for me at that time. I just don't think there's a perfect split that works for everyone yet you see some pretty crazy dogmatic approaches to training, especially here on Reddit.

 

[levi9]

@michaelsouby I prefer muscle group splits too. Whatever keeps you consistent is better than optimal!

 

[mella]

@michaelsouby Are you doing similiar volume with upper lower? If you have stalled with similiar volume, maybe upp the sets for more prioritized muscle groups. You are doing for example only 6 sets for you biceps after a ton of upper back work which pre fatigues the biceps and gives a neglible stimulus for most. Same could be said for the triceps. Also small muscles dont need a full week to recover so maybe hit small muscles more than once per week. Also doing antagonist supersets is a great way to save time and hit muscles like the back (which recovers very fast) more often. I would highly recommend to check out Natural Hypertrophy on youtube. He has a lot of good programming advice and program templates.

 

[harpazo777]

@michaelsouby Dorian yates 2 day split is a favorite of mine:

1. Chest, back, delts
2. Legs, Arms

I've tweaked it a bit:

1. Chest, back, hams
2. Quads, delts, arms

 

[audreyann]

@harpazo777 Torso Limbs is how i setup my training too. Worked really well.

 

[harpazo777]

@audreyann Yeah he said it was like his favorite program. Used it 1983 to 1985 while he was still natty.

It, or a variation, will probably be my next off-season program, 1, 2, Off, repeat. Extra days off as needed.

 

[parodyofjay]

@harpazo777 Very fun split but hard on the elbows, and not enough tricep recovery for me unfortunately.

 

[alamostthere]

@parodyofjay Try a DC 2-day split :

A: chest, delt, triceps, lats, upper back

B: bicep, forearm, calves, hams, quads

or simply move biceps to leg day

btw dorian 2-way split is meant to do like

c+b+d

rest

l+a

rest

rest

 

[spst]

@michaelsouby If you are doing a 4 day try to do like this:

Monday - Legs + Calves

Tuesday - off

Wednesday - Back + Abs

Thursday - Shoulders + Traps + Triceps

Friday - off

Saturday - Chest + Biceps

Sunday - off

This way you can get a rest day in between big muscle groups. If your gym opens on Sundays, you can do "one day on, one day off" and rotate between muscle groups.

 

[dawn16]

@michaelsouby Have you stalled in terms of strength or gaining muscle? You probably just need to eat more. You can also try increasing volume/intensity. I promise you your issue is not your split. A split isn’t magic. It’s just a means of organization of training.

 

[mella]

@dawn16 Yes. Upping the intensity usually does the trick. An evolving rep range would be smart because instead of doing 10, 10, 10 on an exercise you leave quit a bit of reps in reserve in the first set so a better alternative would be to do something like 3 sets of 6-10 where the sets may look like this: 10,8,6 and when you go over the rep range (6-10) in your FIRST set you increase the weight. Another alternative would be to use the rep goal system.

 

[bstrong2day]

@michaelsouby So your exercise selections for the workout days look really good. Pretty solid overall. I personally am not a fan of hitting muscle groups 1day/week as I don't think its enough. 2x/week is usually the suggested minimum.

I would ask "What are your goals and what do you want to hit most?" Your sample split shows mostly upperbody workouts. If thats the case I would do a Upper/Lower/Push/Pull workout routine where you cycle doing a complete upper body routine, complete lower body routine (you have on up there already), Push routine (Chest, Tri's, and shoulders) and Pull routine (Back, Biceps, traps, rear delts).

My last point is that there is really no reason to separate shoulder and trap work from your other days since those muscles are already hit on push and pull movements respectively, unless you are specifically programming with hitting those more in mind.

 

[parodyofjay]

@michaelsouby My thoughts are...doing what you enjoy is going to be the most important factor. So feel free to ignore any and all criticisms, and just go for it.

With that being said, as you probably already know, this routine is going to produce a little worse (or should I say...slower) results than 2x frequency routine. I had the same criticisms of upper/lower as you, and found a way to get the best of both worlds.

The solution for me was to do an Upper/Lower focused on strength at the start of the week, and then a Push/Pull/Legs focused on bodybuilding/hypertrophy at the end of the week. This is a highly effective way to train because the strength improves the hypertrophy days, and vice-versa, creating a positive feedback loop. Naturals generally need to get stronger to grow (in moderate rep ranges), which this routine still achieves, while providing hypertrophy through pump work.

If you decide to do this, I suggest making the upper/lower heavy days with more compounds, lower rep ranges (5-12), closer to failure, and longer rests. For the hypertrophy days, do more isolations, higher reps (10-15 or 20), slightly shorter rests, and stay a little further away from failure. Really pump the muscles up and train like a bodybuilder on those days, that should satisfy your pump cravings. Good luck!

 

[brock]

@michaelsouby It doesn't matter if you change to a bodypart split or not, but try changing something. In your case, I think changing up rep ranges and swapping a few exercises would be enough to break through plateaus.

That said, I enjoy switching in-between UL, PPL, and bodypart splits over time. It depends on what my schedule looks like and what I feel like doing. They each have their unique benefits and drawbacks.

 

[xkerner]

@brock yeah I always swap with 2 other exercises in single bodypart every 2 weeks.