Combining kettlebell and heavy club training?

[chou91]

Hi fellow kettlebellers! I would like to hear some perspectives regarding combination and integration of KB and clubbell training in your regimen.

Some of my background: I'm doing KB for 2,5 years now. My focus now is mainly C&P, squats and swings. After some ABC to get used to the weight, I've been doing DFW + squats with 28kg to some success since beginning of the year. I got a clubbell 6 months ago and really like the variety that it offers, so it became part of my weekly routine. 16lbs is my go-to now, doing inside + outside circles, shield casts and 180 degree pullovers (shoutout to Marc Wildman).

When I started with DFW, I was thinking about the integration of the two. My weekly plan was: 2 days C&P + squats, 2 days pullups, 2 days KB swings, 2 days clubbell. Because of my job including travelling to other cities, I cant do rigid days for training, but rather need some lego-like flexibility. My experience lately has been rather meh: All in all I had real trouble following the above mentioned goals for the exercises. The clubbell training, despite having generally lower intensity, is smoking my forearms, so e.g. KB swings or pullups afterwards become pretty difficult. And having 4 days per week in total with this combination of exercises tiring in general. The result is that I'm pretty late on finishing DFW (this week I will finish it with 8 weeks in total) and my clubbell training is progressing very slowly. Pullups and swings are skipped every now and then.

Two questions to y'all:

1. Do you think my plan was flawed from the beginning and what could I have done better?
2. What are your experiences? How to you integrate the two? Are tradeoffs necessary?
   

Cheers

 

[jackier293]

@chou91 Not sure how much information you're going to get from the kb sub about clubs (I know there are people that do both) but it might be worth asking in the /r/clubbells sub as well.

I think maybe move the clubbell to just 1 day a week to start, but add some swings at the start of all the other days/workouts. More like a warmup rather than anything strenuous. Your forearms will start to get used to the demand.

Workouts with the kettlebells in the rack or non-hookgrip (Joe Daniels / Swing This has tons of variations on different grips) should be your go-to as this will be less intense on your forearms. Can you do goblet squats post-clubbell? How about double front squats?

Get creative and I think they complement each other very well.

 

[sharita3737]

@jackier293 ^Listen to this dude. He is the club/mace with kettlebells dude!

 

[premier3092]

@chou91 You can ask @sharita3737 he does kettlebells + club/maces with great results and fun workouts.

Dude is supa dupa chill, he will gladly help you out.

 

[cavitill]

@premier3092 @worshipjunkie-Tank-7224 also has a very impressive club collection in the background of some of his kettlebell videos

 

[sharita3737]

@premier3092 Thanks! Late to respond here, but happy to answer anything in Reddit DMs/Chats. Sounds like the community already has lots of good suggestions here.

 

[itsmybeautifulsoul]

@chou91 I have been doing KB, club, mace together for the past two years. Currently using 2x28kg KB and a 20kg club/mace (made my own plate loaded device which is much longer than a club and just a little shorter than a mace).

Your grip will improve with time. I remember my forearms being absolutely smoked when I first started out. Just try and gradually increase total rep volume per workout/per week.

I usually just pick one double KB exercise and one club/mace exercise per workout and try not to have too much overlap between them.

Some favourite combos:

• KB see saw press and mills
• KB jerks and two handed club swing to extended arm hold
• KB cleans and club pullovers

 

[mmsyther]

@chou91 KB and maces/clubs go fantastic together. I usually just add one 10 minutes of mace/club work later in the day and do it for time. And yes, it will smoke your forearms at first but over time will greatly improve your shoulder mobility/stability and grip strength.

 

[joana27]

@chou91 I got a Cadi Club a couple months back and I really enjoy it. My focus is on kettlebells, with a whole body/conditioning primary goal, although three days a week I do extra focus on a "strength" portion of the full body circuit like Monday I go extra hard on lunges, Wednesday it's extra hinge and deadlift, Friday is squats. Then maybe next week I'll do chest and arms or something. But it's all mixed in with the work everything mindset.

Lately I've been feeling like I'm neglecting the Cadi a little bit, so now I just do some fun stuff with it at night after work. I like the Wildman program, and I mix in some moves from the Savage guy too.

 

[crazycat2005]

@chou91 I follow Mark Wildman’s Tetris of Training and that sees me training four days a week, M/T and T/F. I tried adding heavy clubs on either a Wed or a Sat but I got into overtraining and I noticed a huge drop off in my energy levels and my quality of sleep. My KB sessions are always balls-to-the-wall because I add density, volume, or weight to every session. There’s never an easy day. On days I cycle to a lighter weight I’m doing more reps/sets. On the other days I’m doing heavier weights and also adding reps/sets to try and keep a certain distance between total work done during the sessions.

In the end I had to put my heavy club down. My rest days became too important. I see it sitting in the corner and always say ‘soon’ but I haven’t hit a point in my training where I want to go easier with the kb to work with the club. So for now, I just do the one.

If your program isn’t taxing you that bad, I would say you could fit it in on a rest day and have one or to days of ‘active rest’. Start with a light weight and slowly work up the time under tension. I did four movements when I was working them in. IC, OC, shield cast, and pullover. I did each set for time and swapped hands every ten reps until the timer went off. Repeat four times. I got up to almost five minutes per move for four sets before I had to set it down.

 

[cavitill]

@chou91 I had the same experience - too much forearm/wrist/grip load - and I also used mostly 16lb club (or a pair of 8lbs) in a Wildman-inspired system. In my opinion 8-12lbs is ideal for a club - lighter and it doesnt cast well, heavier and your grip will burn out and mainly just from isometric holding in order. Doubles are amazing but it's really easy to burn out because you can't rest, plus its expensive unless you DIY. I don't really see the benefit in the "clubbell" style, I think the Karlakattai style is the most promising but there isnt a ton of educational content available sadly. After thinking about this question for a bit, my conclusion is clubs might be best as a sort of active recovery cycle between heavier programs, as in you complete DFW for example and then deload with a couple weeks of club work before starting the next cycle. Just a thought.

 

[jackier293]

@cavitill

I don't really see the benefit in the "clubbell" style, I think the Karlakattai style is the most promising but there isnt a ton of educational content available sadly.

Ok, you can't drop this bomb on me and not share some more info. Is there any YouTube videos available with more info on Karlakattai (I realize you said there's limited content, but I'll take whatever is available).

 

[cavitill]

@jackier293 Karthik Vilwanathan has good demonstrations on YouTube.