Dan John's issue with dual snatches???

[barronkanetaylor]

I just saw a YouTube video of Dan John angrily telling someone during a Q/A to Go ahead and do dual snatches if you want the kettlebells to fall on your skull, but I'm an academic so I actually need my brain.

Anyone know his deal? He sounds a lot more like an angry jerk than any academic who I encountered in university!

Dual snatches are not very complicated. I've even coached people who say they're easier than one arm snatches, citing the anti rotation element. Who is he coaching where he's seeing people drop kettlebells on their head, has anyone here actually heard of someone doing that?

He went on to say he'd throw someone out of his gym if he caught them doing dual snatches because people who get hurt in gyms sue the owner. But people get hurt in gyms all the time.

He even said you won't impress him if you snatch dual 48 kg bells because he barbell snatched that when he was a teenager, like that's the same thing whatsoever...

What happened to Dan John and how long has he been like this???

EDIT: video here

 

[8weaponx]

@barronkanetaylor He doesn't prefer these movements for the folks he coaches. During podcasts you get inexperienced lifters who might want to try fancy things and injure themselves. So he's being more cautious than dismissive of the movements. And he is not wrong in some sense. How many do really stick at a single weight before progressing. the first thing that one looks to progress is the intensity rather than volume and density. it took me over 2 years of lifting to double snatch 2x24s confidently safely. Similarly, it took me over 3 years to get to 44kg TGU. I was never chasing weights as I matured in my lifting age. When I started with kettlebells I most definitely was chasing weight. I have learnt ... thankfully .. not from injuries but from the wisdom of other experienced lifters.

Dan John has a dry sense of humour, so he does say things that make him sound like a douche bag. But he most definitely is not.

 

[hunter101]

@barronkanetaylor From what I can tell there's two things going on.

One, he assumes access to and proficiency with barbell lifts. He also doesn't see the point in really heavy kbs (48+kg for most people), because they'll just gather dust - and also he could press a 48 the first time he tried because he's done lots of lighter reps + some really heavy barbell clean & jerk.

So it seems to me he'd rather want you to do your heavy work with equivalent barbell lifts.

Second, there are a number of questions he gets asked a lot. I've noticed the use of clubs and maces, and also double snatches. I haven't seen him get angry, but I've seen him get visibly annoyed when repeatedly asked about things people already know his opinion on.

A last point, which is sort of related to the second one. There are a bunch of things he doesn't believe is a good idea, but he will often ask you to go ahead and try it. One way to interpret it is that he's being sarcastic and expects you'd fail if you did. Another way to interpret it is that he wants you to actually do it rather than seek his blessing if you're going to do it anyways.

 

[christian_bibin]

@hunter101 Well said. Also around that time wasn’t he dealing with some bad personal issues with his wife ? The guy is only human after all. And as you said he’s probably sick of people asking for his approval to do things he doesn’t think are the best ‘bang dot your buck’ or things he believes can be outright dangerous. Why not just hit barbell snatches and overhead bb squats?

 

[alittlebird]

@christian_bibin First, if he doesn't want people asking questions, then what the heck is he doing podcasts and his videos for? You get the same question? You think s/o has seen ALL of his previous videos? If he doesn't like a question, ignore it and go to another one.

Secondly, he is rabid about some things with no reason. Example: skipping rope for exercise. Could it be because he's a large dude and not able to do it well? It's a well known form of exercise, for boxers and others. Get over it.

He may be an "expert" on training the throwing sports, but that doesn't make him the last statement on other things.

 

[sharita3737]

@barronkanetaylor Another thing to keep in mind is that he's typically coaching elite collegiate or high school athletes, where the cost to benefit ratio for a particular exercise has to be worth it to his view.

For him, things like double snatches, heavy Turkish get ups, rotation with load, he doesn't see them valuable relative to the perceived risk.

I personally disagree with him on some of this, but I understand where he's coming from. He's coached for decades so I think at least deserves that.

 

[agiosconstantinos]

@sharita3737 His opinion of TGUs is pretty over the top. He just doesn’t like the movement and really thinks it shouldn’t be used at all. But it’s a perfectly safe movement if you have good control and good form. You’re much more likely to injure yourself doing anything with a hip hinge, especially if your form is wonky.

 

[faiththeist12]

@agiosconstantinos That’s not what he’s said. He doesn’t recommend heavy TGUs (anything over 32kg if I remember correctly) for the athletes who he coaches because the risk vs reward is too high.

 

[agiosconstantinos]

@faiththeist12 No, he has made statements like “I don’t know of anybody who has made their body composition better doing Turkish getups.” Which is just a really dismissive statement and incorrect.

 

[thoughtkeeper]

@agiosconstantinos I always think of this Valery Federenko quote when doing tgu-
"[TGU is] more of a demonstration of strength than a training tool. You already have to be strong to do this correctly and safely, as there are so many opportunities for your shoulder to be at an angle or position where it could get injured. I am also not going to put my sixty-year old mother onto the floor with a kettlebell and make her stand up and lie back down. It just doesn’t make sense from a training standpoint.

The get up is also too slow. Why spend two minutes doing six repetitions when you can do one hundred? We are humans, and humans have to do repetitions all day. How many one-step repetitions does a baby do in a day, ten thousand? I would rather have someone do many jerks, push presses, or snatches in that time and see more benefit."

 

[agiosconstantinos]

@thoughtkeeper Lots of opinions out there. There are quite a few MMA/BJJ athletes who would disagree with him though.

 

[marry]

@agiosconstantinos That might come from the fact that the TGU somehow resembles a move that is considered a standard movement for BJJ and MMA.

My personal opinion (as an ultra heavy weight fighter in BJJ) is, that movements making you get up from the floor are useful and underestimatedly exhausting.

But the argument that a Turkish Getup is a very slow and time consuming movement and on the mats are better replaced with burpees/sprawls (a grappling specific movement that is similar to a burpee) which are much faster and more fighting specific movements makes kinda sense for me.

 

[laodicean60]

@agiosconstantinos Yeah I feel like bench press is WAY more dangerous than a tgu. I've failed tgus at 48kg and it really wasn't a big deal, you just use your other hand or drop it away from your body. I mean, it's obviously a movement you don't do until failure.

 

[hunter101]

@laodicean60 If you bench with safeties and fail a rep, all you have to do is relax your arch and slide out from under the bar.

 

[613jono]

@laodicean60 Dan John: "The bench press is the only exercise that kills. Every so often you hear about someone you know killing themselves at a home gym or a friend of mine at in college dropped the weight on his face and he was strong it was a lot of damage and I think it affected him long term with a lot of other issues."

 

[lostscaredme]

@agiosconstantinos I would only agree that he doesn’t like the full getup. He loves it up to the bridge, for those who do it that way, possibly even to the half-kneel, but no further.

 

[agiosconstantinos]

@lostscaredme There is so much core strength you build going from half kneel to standing, and vice versa though. It’s also imo the safest part of the movement. I don’t really get it.

 

[ulkon]

@agiosconstantinos You could just do an ab wheel. Faster, lower risk.

 

[lostscaredme]

@agiosconstantinos I can’t disagree with that, but I think he’s considering it from a risk-reward perspective. Coming back down from the top with a heavy bell is where most people will fail, if they’ve gotten that far.

 

[barronkanetaylor]

@sharita3737 This does not sound right. I was a ranked tennis player in my country and a lot of what I am seeing in these videos, like being against lunges and single leg lifts, is contrary to tennis strength programs. Are you sure he is training elite athletes? What I see him saying seems more suitable for people not involved in athletics. At least half of what we did was conditioning, rotational power, shoulder health, and single leg strength and elastic exercises.