F/34/5'7.5" [150 > 142.6lbs = 7.4lbs] 3 month Recomp, 1 month slight cut. PCOS and hypermobility/EDS

jacky8887

New member
I mentioned in a comment previously that I would post some progress photos to demonstrate what a small recomp looked like for me since starting strength training for the first time ever 4 months ago, under the supervision of an amazingly thoughtful, intelligent, encouraging and understanding personal trainer. Here goes!

My progress so far

Hypermobility / EDS​


As someone who has weak connective tissue caused by Ehlers Dahnlos Syndrome (collagen is not laid down correctly in the body) ...injuries are a lot more common and take much longer to heal (if indeed they ever do!) which means that training can be difficult because of this.

I have been suffering since the age of 27 with a cascade of tendon/ligament injuries and cartilage damage (right knee meniscus and probable right hip labral tear) - I walked around on a broken foot for 9 months because doctors couldn't believe that an inversion of my foot/ankle sustained during a fall when bouldering/climbing could cause a navicular fracture (despite me studying anatomy diagrams and poking my very painful foot repeatedly to figure out exactly which bone was broken) and spending months trying to convince them that it wasn't a soft tissue injury, because I knew how such things felt after having sprains and muscular tears as a teenage athlete. Eventually it was diagnosed with an ultrasound (!) by someone who was supposed to be doing cortisone injection! After months of pain and having to give up my physically damanding hard won role as a photography assistant role at a studio, I had to have surgery to remove the bone fragment and reattatch the posterior tibial tendon to the navicular... all of which could have easily been avoided if they had immobilised the foot in a cast when I first injured it.

I had many years of continual injuries (my muscles were strong in my upper body but my tendons would randomly just stretch and tear doing simple tasks) and there was no abatement despite plenty of rest and trying to take care of my body with physio etc. I was eventually diagnosed with EDS in 2015 which I couldnt accept for a while since I didn't seem to have the widespread bendiness that other sufferers do. However, we all present differently and I have always had ridiculously bendy fingers and PoTs type symptoms too - I now realise that it explains a lot of odd, seemingly unrelated health issues.

I have had many, many low points. In addition to constant chronic pain in several specific joints, I experienced more depressingly restrictive issues such as a 10 month period when my hip locked up with excruicating pain when moving my right leg and I couldnt lift my femur past 45 degrees. At times like these I completly abandoned hope of ever being able to excercise again, and the pain from walking even a small distance and worsening injuries even with the most boring (to me) of excercises such as slow, careful swimming ...made me feel that my future was very bleak.

I still feel that way at times. Being strong and focusing on what I could do with my body was what used to help me deal with body image issues... particularly due to feeling overly masculine (muscular arms, large hands, broad back). I had also become quite soft and flabby due to eating the same amount as when I was highly athletic, despite looking reasonably slim in clothes. As someone with aspergers diagnosed in adulthood (explained a lot) excercise was something that enabled me to socialise, get out of my head and connect with others. I often feel a lot of grief at my new limitations since explosive, quick-reaction type excercise used to not only be so much fun, but it provided a huge outlet, boosted endorphins and supported my emotional wellbeing. A large part of it has been learning to manage my frustration, being kind to myself, learning to accept/ask for help and deal with my fears what other people think about those of us with this type of chronic health issue.

Getting into lifting / strength training​


A year ago I decided to start lifting having read that strength training could help reduce some symptoms of EDS due to muscles taking over some of the functionality of the lax ligaments and stabilising the joints. I joined an amazingly supportive all-female powerlifting group since I loved the idea of learning to lift heavy with barbells. However, despite being reasonably strong despite my lack of training (bench pressed 35kg for 5 reps, deadlifted 65kg on first go) I quickly had severe pain in my lower back from deadlifting, even though my form was considered very good and I was being pretty careful. I had to stop completely and this took several months to calm down.

My current trainer has been amazing - reading up on my condition and educating himself, listening to my concerns and goals, paying close attention to form, stability and mobility before attempting certain lifts/moves. He has also been helping me to learn when to 'apply the brakes' rather than push myself (which I have a tendency to do) and generally is on my wavelength regarding natural movement patterns, functional strength, concerned with biomechanics etc. I was worried about whether it would be worth it since it is a lot of money for me (luckily I have shared sessions with my partner which makes it more affordable) but it has been absolutely priceless. I would advise anyone who can to invest in just a month with a good personal trainer if they are starting out, just to develop good form and habits.

Unfortunately I have been unable to deadlift from the beginning, and despite getting over my initial difficulties with squats (feeling like I was going to fall over and feeling it completely in my quads) the slight pinching sensation I had in the front of my right hip developed into more severe hip pain and we have had to stop squatting for now. It is super frustrating, since once it 'clicked' mentally for me and I learned to hinge my hips back properly and engage my glutes I started to really enjoy them and progressed from struggling to do a few bodyweight squats to doing 45kg barbell squats with good form. Thankfully for now I am still able to do one big compound move with hip thrusts - although I have been having strange dizzyness/nausea/shock-like symptoms from doing this sometimes, so I am currently getting bloodwork/heart etc checked with my doctor. We are using the leg press machine, step ups etc to try and maintain some lower body strength until I can figure out how to help my hip issues and hopefully get back to squatting.

PCOS / extra testosterone / muscle building​


I am someone who has higher levels of testosterone (approx 3x last time I was tested) than the majority of women, with a naturally broad back, good natural upper body and grip strength which has always been there regardless of excercising. I have learned to appreciate this strength, and mostly accept how I look; but I do have concerns about becoming more muscular in my upper body than I would prefer for myself since I already have body image issues due to the masculinising effects of PCOS.

However, despite going from struggling to do band-assisted chin-ups and incline push-ups to now managing three slow, controlled, unassisted chin-ups (within 3.5 months, which my trainer says is very unusual) and 3 sets of 8x pushups - I have only noticed a very minor increase in bicep curve when my arms are relaxed. Even when I flex - although I look very muscular - I look like this regardless of whether I lift/strength train or not! This tells me that it is absolutely true what people say - it would be astonishing for an average woman (who would have a lot less testosterone than me naturally and a much narrower back/shoulders skeletally) to accidentally become 'bulky' with strength training.

The future!​


Going forward I hope to continue focusing on lower body strength (my main area of weakness), working around my various injuries to hopefully improve pain levels and build muscle in key areas to balance my upper body. Since I seem to have an aptitude for upper body movements, I also plan to work towards cool calisthenic stuff like muscle-ups (eventually!)

I have long way to go to reach my goals, but I am happy with what I've achieved so far - especially considering the chronic pain/injuries I am working through with hypermobility/EDS.

I have been quite anxious posting about this (in particular the photos of my body). I am terrible at being concise - so well done if you got this far! I personally found it particularly fascinating seeing my body recompose & I hope my documentation of this is of interest or useful to someone. I just think it is so incredibly cool not having to restrict calories overly, but seeing your body shift and change for the better!

TL:DR - started training and had encouraging results despite PCOS and EDS. Recomp is absolutely real!
 
@jacky8887 This is a really old post but I also have EDS and am starting a strength training routine. This is inspiring to see! How did you go about finding a trainer that is EDS literate?
 
@jacky8887 Have you been tested for POTS ? (Tilt table test)
I also get dizzy when doing things like hip thrusts, (and many other exercises that involve laying down or sitting down then standing )
The basic treatment of high water high salt diet per recommendation from the Mayo Clinic has helped significantly with these symptoms.

Anyways you are a huge inspiration
Keep kicking ass !
 
@suzietk Ah! No I haven’t had it tested properly (the doctor took my blood pressure sitting and standing last week, but that time it stayed stable) ...although I’m fairly sure I have it due to having times where I lose my vision completely for 15 seconds, get dizzy and sometimes crumple to the floor without losing consciousness after standing from sitting/lying.

I have tried increasing salt (I don’t naturally add it to my food) and I even make my own ‘sports drink’ with water, salt, lemon juice & sugar. It’s weird - I can go for months, almost a year or so sometimes without the orthostatic intolerance manifestations, then it will appear with a vengeance again for a few months. I can’t establish a pattern though.

I think you are right though - the hip thrusts are no doubt triggering a different type of PoTs symptoms (eg I don’t lose my vision, but instead I become nauseous, with cold face feeling & one time my lips went blue like a previous shock reaction!)

Thankyou for the tips and the kind words :)
 
@pebcak I’m glad it was interesting! Thankyou for the kind words, although I think you are being too kind about it being concise! Haha! I use have a desire to convey as much info as possible because I never know which bit someone might find handy to them personally. All the best!
 
@jacky8887 As someone who also has EDS and also suffered from grade 3 lateral and menialmeniscal tears, please try see if physio can solve your issues, especially if the tears aren't that serious. I'm over 6 months post op and still not fully healed because we shouldn't get surgery on our joints unless 100% necessary due to how long it takes to heal. Now, my tears definitely required surgery but the healing process is incredibly slow and annoying.
 
@jacky8887 Great job! I am curious as to how you have managed to work around the hip labral tear. I too have labral tears, I have multiple in both of my hips. I used to squat and deadlift heavy as well, but haven't for a long time in fear of making it worse.

Please keep us updated on how you progress, especially with regards to your hip. Keep up the amazing work!
 
@jacky8887 Great results!! Amazing attitude :)

I have hypermobility syndrome and have had similar experiences (with doctors, injury, grief), totally relate.

Just wanted to ask, what are your lifting goals? I’ve been off it for a while - planning to get back to it soon, once my back is in better shape - but the advice I got, from a great physiotherapist (athlete-focused, definitely wanted me to do as much as possible), as well as a physiatrist and sports medicine doctor, was to stick to higher reps and lower load (10-20 reps well below max, with a real focus on form above all). Any time I tried to go much heavier, something would go wrong :/ so it’s advice I’ve been forced to follow. There’s also had to be quite a bit of regression and of course working around injuries:/ Bodies are different, so hopefully you’re able continue to progress in your lifting goals, but I guess, try to accept wherever you find yourself. Best of luck :)
 
@jacky8887 First, awesome progress and results! Your hard work paid off! Second outstanding post! I love the detailed nature. Third, and what I really want to know, how did you create the graphs and how were you determining your BF%?
 
@jacky8887 :) I feel ya!
I have a chiari malformation and there’s been a question of EDS but no official diagnosis, so I stopped asking because I got so tired of all of the tests and the doctors not believing my symptoms (I was told that my third herniated disc was anxiety and I should eat better and try to extercise more. Doc had nothing to say when the MRI pointed out that he was an idiot!). I have had a shit ton of injuries and I had to quit lifting heavy like I had been. I loved squatting 160 and deadlifting 315 but I had to take it back to just the bar because my ligaments got so mad that walking was an issue. I am progressing and adding more weight to the bar but I have to take it so much slower than I want. I WANT to add 5 lbs to the bar per week like the program I am doing tells me but instead I am adding 1 rep per set until I hit 12 reps and THEN adding 5lbs and taking the reps back down to 5 per set. It is painfully slow but my body seems to be responding. And althought I have been assessed by PT and a trainer and was told I have great form, I found out that my right side joints bend just a little different than the left and that causes incredible pain if I don’t watch it. I mean, when I squat, my right knee doesn’t naturally go past my toe 1” like my left does, because that hip is a little different. That 1” is enough to fuck me up for months. My bf set me up with a little wooden platform with posts that stick up at right angles so I can make sure my knees are exactly the same. I got the idea from the Starting Strength book and it has changed everything for me. There are some things that I just can’t do, like OHP, because that right shoulder isn’t where it needs to be to do it correctly but I am working on other things so hopefully it will eventually cooperate. Paying attention to what my body is telling me and not pushing it to do what I want it to (or what a traditional lifting program says I should do) has really helped. I have had to slowly accept that I’m built a little differently but that I’m not broken and it’s not hopeless. I just have to slow down.

I want you to know that you are badass. I admire your courage to keep going and to put yourself out there. This shit isn’t easy but you are doing a great job :)

Edit: I forgot! Can I humbly suggest, if you are having hip issues that maybe take a look at thiese PT exercises? I was really struggling and found this program. I do them before I do any kind of lifting and they help to wake up all of my stabilizing muscles and get them to work together. I started out with bodyweight and then moved on to light ankle weights and over the past 3 months of doing them consistently, I have noticed that they really help me. They also have other PT programs if you are looking for core or shoulders. I don’t know if it will help you or not but I think it might be worth a shot.

https://uhs.princeton.edu/sites/uhs/files/documents/Pelvic-Stabilization-Hip-Strengthening.pdf
 
@iamgr8tful Oh wow - I’ve read about Chiari and it sounds awful. So sorry to hear about shitty doctors - it seems unfortunately common with these sorts of chronic issues & I think we need something of a revolution in healthcare personally. It takes so much to put yourself through the process of seeking help when you are ill, and it’s such a kick in the teeth to not be treated with respect, genuine concern and a desire to get to the bottom of things.

What you said about trainers and physio saying you have good form/alignment etc really rings a bell. I’ve noticed only from looking at my progress photos that my right hip is higher than my left consistently & my feet are both rotated to the right when my body is on the same parallel plane to the camera. I wonder if in most people this would be within the bounds of ‘normal’, whereas for us even slight deviations can cause disproportionate damage and problems. Additionally I wonder if we are in fact used to trying to move and hold ourselves well to prevent injury. For example - I have been obsessed with trying to have good posture for years - so when a massage therapist mentioned it, I knew that compared to the general public, my posture is pretty good - but I definitely have some observable issues and imbalances ...eg. I’m still trying to improve my forward head posture.

I love that your boyfriend made the wooden peg/platform thing ...so sweet & practical! I’m currently trying to picture it & failing slightly however! Sounds incredibly useful.

“Paying attention to what my body is telling me and not pushing it to do what I want it to (or what a traditional lifting program says I should do) has really helped. I have had to slowly accept that I’m built a little differently but that I’m not broken and it’s not hopeless. I just have to slow down.” So much wisdom in this, and this resonates hugely. Thankyou from the bottom of my heart.

That link sounds great! I will definitely check that out - I absolutely need to do some work on my right hip (I was looking into the FAI fix guys stuff since my symptoms seem somewhat in line with that) I can’t afford a physio right now (or at least for very long really) so personal recommendations such as yours and online resources like this are invaluable.

Thankyou again for sharing and your solidarity. It means a huge amount,
 
@jacky8887 Wow, you look amazing! Can I ask how you structured your recomp? I read through your posts and am curious how I might structure it for myself. I’ve been trying to limit my calories to ~1600 per day but maybe I should be in a slight surplus while I’m weight lifting.
 
@cyriacb Hi - and Thankyou! I am certainly no expert & I did things in a fairly organic/experimental way.

To give you some context : I knew from previous experience of restricting to 1200-1500 that I would lose very quickly, then quickly regain after only two months or so when I inevitably fell off the wagon. I felt like I had no willpower and beat myself up, which was of course unhealthy and counterproductive for me.

I wanted to avoid that this time since I knew my main priority was the health of my joints etc... this time it was critical that I fuel my body to enable it to rebuild itself. The desire to reduce pain trumped any aesthetic desires for quick (yet unsustainable) results ...thank goodness. I even wonder if my previous misguided attempts to restrict so much (based on my fitness pals hugely underestimating calculations) could have actually contributed to the degradation of my tendons & ligaments.

I was sedentary at the time - hence trying to learn how to control weight with calorie awareness since as a younger person my athleticism had granted me the luxury of not having to care about my diet at all. My muscles were not being called on to do anything, my tendons weren’t being stressed and my body wouldn’t have been doing much to preserve that tissue I’m guessing. I suspect I lost a lot of strength/functionality and connective tissue strength during these excessive ‘cuts’.

The recent approach starting in August 2018 :

My trainer emphasised that diet was important, that a deficit would likely be needed to achieve my goals which included fat loss and I needed to prioritise meeting a certain level of protein intake. He encouraged me to just track my calories in MFP - he didn’t push me or bully me in any way which I think was absolutely key (we often do this to ourselves I feel, so having someone model that non-pressuring, but encouraging mindset was very helpful)

I intended to create a deficit at first, but I quickly found that I simply didn’t want to! I was doing all these new, demanding, tiring movements and it made no sense. I also felt I needed to know and test where maintenance calories might be for me before I started moving it around. I initially found it difficult to reach my protein goals (at least 75g but preferably over 100g per day).

However I also realised that when I did get enough protein, my appetite was much lower and I didn’t get the same crazy hunger pangs a couple of hours after breakfast etc. I felt satiated for the first time in years. I started to reconnect with what feeling ‘comfortably full’ felt like rather than the ‘overstuffed’ feeling that I used to think was fullness.

By virtue of this approach I started to find my massive carb/sugar binges subsiding - simply tracking everything, trying not to judge myself, being consistent and building the habit of putting everything into MFP, trying to reach protein goal etc started to shift my attitude.

I kept looking at the weekly calorie average and weighing myself - first thing in the mornings (I didn’t manage every day, just reasonably frequently) ...I ensured I measured after weeing but before eating (2-3lb fluctuations were still normal, but I could recognise any trends). This enabled me to get a picture over time of where maintenance was at. I settled into this after a month & just accepted that my body was starting to recomp based upon the bodyfat/muscle percentage scale readings.

It was such a cool, exciting realisation! I hadn’t quite believed up until that point that it was real. And I assumed that even if it was real, I would have had to be a lot more structured in my approach, make a proper plan and use one of those confusing TDEE spreadsheets before I figured out how to do it! Turns out I didn’t!

Once I realised that maintenance for me was maybe as high as 2450kcal - I was very happily surprised I could eat so much - it was an incredible relief. Suddenly it made complete sense why I could never stick to my previous 1300kcal diets.... my body was screaming at me to stop, then eat everything! No amount of willpower could win against that!

So, the key for me was :
  • meeting my protein goals (~0.7g per lb of body weight, so around 100g per day - I still struggle sometimes with this since I love carbs!) I still rely too much on protein bars etc & I’d like to figure out how to get more wholefood proteins into me in a form I genuinely enjoy! I’m not beating myself up about the protein bars though - it’s a perfectly legitimate stepping stone as far as I’m concerned.
  • tracking everything I ate carefully and thoroughly in MFP whilst being kind and non-judgemental towards myself. I tried to be a lot less extreme (good vs bad foods) - and remain more observational.
  • weighing myself regularly (decide for yourself how often would be healthy & I guess be careful if it’s linked to any negative or obsessive thoughts for you) For me regularity enabled me to see the weight fluctuations but not get hung up on them. It was inevitably just water weight - I could tell I hadn’t suddenly gained actual fat!
  • relaxing. Not ‘clinging’ to small changes or worrying about eating yummy things - taking a step back, looking at the bigger picture and trends.
  • focusing on my health and fuelling my body.
  • if I ate more I wouldn’t be hard on myself, I’d just think ‘oh, that happened. I wonder if anything happened that triggered me to overeat?’ Often it was that I’d let myself get too hungry, not eaten enough protein, or some emotional issue was affecting my food intake. I’d try to have a kind, calm internal voice with myself & just encourage myself to get back to tracking and making more nutritious, nurturing choices.
 
@cyriacb No worries - apologies if there’s too much fluff there - I’m tired and just sort of brain-dumped the info! Hopefully something there is useful.

The main takeaway for me was I didn’t need to be anywhere near as organised/prepared as I thought, and that the calculators were REALLY wrong for me personally. I can highly recommend a slightly organic/reactive approach & being open to the possibility of eating more. But I recognise that different things work for different people, and I am in no way experienced or particularly knowledgable!

Good luck with whatever approach you take. I’d love to hear your own insights into these things :)
 
@jacky8887 I just wanted to say I admire your mindset so much. You're obviously getting stronger physically, but WOW is your mindset strong, and I hope you realize how much of an asset that is.

I'm a perfectly healthy powerlifter who has had a few non-lifting related injuries that caused a few weeks of very minor pain. All I could think at the time was how horrible it would be to be in terrible pain all the time and not be able to move my body the way I want to whenever I want to. I don't think I could do it, personally. It would tear me down mentally. But it sounds like you are thriving despite the pain, and I admire that SO much. Keep at it, it sounds like you're on the right track and doing the right things to rise above your situation. Very inspiring.

I love squats, they're my favorite lift by far, so I'll send good squat vibes your way so that one day you might be able to join in that love :)
 
@dawn16 Thankyou truly! It can really do a number on your psyche.

My perception of myself can be all over the place due to what I have been gradually realising over the years is dysmorphia - one of the reasons for the extensive documentation of things in various forms. It definitely wouldn’t be right for everyone, but for me it somehow provides a more objective external counterbalance to the unpredictable way I see myself in the mirror or when I look at my acne/scarred skin, hairs etc,

Solidarity right back at you! I am with you & rooting for you. :)
 
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