I cannot gain muscle, no matter what I do

[cheezemang]

@armorandswordwilling I use a clinic, but it was a straightforward sell due to a few tests that were particularly low (although most low-normal) + hip fracture/osteopenia, and when answering their questionnaire, a few other things became apparent. e.g., lack of morning wood, energy levels, workout quality, etc. This would have been a harder sell to the GP, although they have since offered to take over and both the GP + clinic are obviously extremely pleased/interested in my bone density increase.

At this point I can't believe I didn't start earlier but at the time I was pretty nervous about being tied to a medication for life.

 

[xebratech]

@allysmiles3 Eat more

 

[allysmiles3]

@xebratech I don’t struggle to gain weight

 

[kamienzen]

@allysmiles3 If your overall goal is muscle growth, and you are in at 3 years with no “progress” which is highly doubtful muscle doesn’t fit the same way fat does. It’s dense, and is gained very slowly, 5-10lbs your first year of actual training, and usually drops down to 2-5lbs after that initial year. Let’s say you fall into the low category. With 9lbs gain in your 3 years let’s look at some recommendations.

I recommend cutting to 165lbs all while going to failure in high volume training .

Why high volume. Higher volume means more frequency for hitting weights which means more days in the gym for specifics splits that target both upper and lower body parts 2/3 times a week totaling to 3 days each for upper and lower.

I recommend a body recomp at 165lbs (eat at maintenance push weights hard for 3 months .)

After recomp do bulk in which you gain about .5 lbs a week for a duration or 3-4 months push weights to failure in volume work. Aim for 12-16 sets a week per body part.

A few key things to look into getting a full blood work panel that includes T and free T and estrogen levels, thyroid levels, all of it.

Lower test level as well as out of whack estrogen play a roll in muscle building. As free test is what binds to proteins receptors.

Training to failure ensures enough stimulus to a muscle. Over training comes in when you use to much volume on top of to much intensity.

Recovery, it not just sleep but your bodies over all ability to heal and perform after stimulus. This is through hydration, nutrition, sleep, stress mitigation.

If you still fail lifts, look into a personal trainer or get in the juice.

 

[aymgoa]

@allysmiles3 I feel your pain. If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone. Here is my story.
https://www.reddit.com/r/naturalbodybuilding/s/iqQV6iQZ43

Almost identical. I can gain and lose weight on command, and I have done 3 cut and bulk cycles with different programming. I program for progressive overload and push to failure, but can't increase lifts or muscle mass over the long run. The only thing that goes up or down is my body body fat %. Also 6 foot, weight from 145-175lb. I have done dexa scans, body measurements, and hormone testing Still no good news for me, though.

Even if your programming was mediocre (which I don't think it is), you should have increased muscle

Hashimoto's may have more effects on your progress than you think. I haven't researched it much, but it's a thyroid disease that affects hormones.

I would talk to a doctor, endocrinologist, and get your hormone levels tested if you haven't already. I would test testosterone, but others too. Cortisol, estrogen, sbhg, igf-1, thyroid, dhea. Also, you may be taking medication that would have an effect on muscle mass. If you haven't, do dexa scans and body measurements to ensure you are not actually gaining muslce. If your measments go up but your waist stays the same, you're gaining muscle. Also, have someone objectively look at your pics to ensure you haven't gained any muslce. It's best to compare apple to apples, so at the end of a cut vs. an end of a cut.

As you can tell, I've been down this road, and I haven't given up yet. Lifting has improved my life in many other ways. But it's tough to stick with anything for years without getting any results, especially when everyone around you is trying half as hard and getting better results. Feel free to reach out to me, I'd be happy to get more into detail and try to come up with other solutions together.

 

[dbirdez]

@aymgoa Hey, I just saw your post. Did you incorporate going to failure on your sets as was suggested by many folks, and did that help you gain some muscle?

 

[creationrocks]

@allysmiles3 Why did you tack on that you have hashimoto's as not worth mentioning? That is a thyroid and hormonal disorder. You likely have extremely low free testosterone, especially at lower weight / body fat and it's definitely affecting your ability to progress. You can still get in good shape while dealing with it, but it's going to take forever.

 

[allysmiles3]

@creationrocks I guess i waited to tack it on because I basically never ever think about it. I’ve had it since like sixth grade. Only when people have been constantly commenting about checking my hormones did I even think it might be worth mentioning that I had it.

I also like to take responsibility for my actions and the results, so it’s hard for me to conceptualize that my failure is anything’s fault but my own I.e. pinning it on horomones or genetics feels lazy.

Do you have any specific good reference ranges for these hormones? I see a lot of reference ranges online, but a lot of them seem to be condemned by this community as inaccurate.

 

[creationrocks]

@allysmiles3 Hormone ranges are extremely person specific. Testosterone at 300 might be incredibly low for one person, but totally normal for another. Most guys will probably fall somewhere around the 700ish range in their 20's, but I'm not a doctor so don't take my word as fact. A good example of what hashimoto's does and where you can get training with it would be Quinton Pulliam (there's a lot of fake natty stuff on him, but he just has Hashimoto's). At one point his testosterone level was 13 and he regularly dips into the 100's range when cutting, which would be really low for an average guy, but he looks great. Not sure if he's made any content on how he deals with it though. Best advice would be what most people are saying which is get advice from a doctor and make sure you're actually challenging yourself, it's easy to underestimate how hard you can really push yourself. I think the possibility that you're being limited by hormones after 3 years of training is higher than just not doing enough exercise, but I don't know what your workouts are like so I can't really comment. Hope you get to your physique goals once you figure out what's limiting you though.

 

[maylicia]

@allysmiles3 Train to complete failure, see if you gain any strength in the next few weeks/months

 

[rootsrockreggae]

@maylicia Every set? Compounds and accessories? Or just last set on specific excercises?

 

[zainonechia]

@allysmiles3 6 Foot says it all. You’re way under weight. Thats the weight I would expect a 5’7” female to be. Make the trek to 230-240.

 

[allysmiles3]

@zainonechia Is there some weight reference chart you can give me? I’m basing my weight on BMI, which at your numbers would say I’m clinically obese.

 

[zainonechia]

@allysmiles3 Yep. BMI is the least inaccurate way of measuring whether or not you’re at the right “weight”. Look up an ffmi calculator and shoot for a 25. BMI will tell a female athlete with abs that she’s obese. You just can’t trust it.

If I was coaching a 6’ powerlifter at the top of their weight class they’d be between the 220 and 242lb weight classes.

https://torokhtiy.com/pages/speed

Here’s a link I use to get good ideas of weight classes for lifters to be right in the range they should be.

Find a coach who can help you specifically with your individual differences.

 

[itamgshred]

@allysmiles3

edit: one additional thing I forgot to mention is I have Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. I don’t think it makes much of a difference but worth mentioning I guess

I'm not a doctor but it sounds like this WOULD make a difference, if I experienced the symptoms that were listed for it I think my recovery would suffer personally.

If you're plateauing in terms of both muscle and strength gains, you're going to need to 1st build more muscle (hypertrophy block), then use it to hit new PR's (strength block). I'd also recommend stop bulking/cutting. If your not a bodybuilder, it makes no sense. Eat a high protein, whole foods diet that supports steady, sustainable gains. Spend 8-12 weeks in each phase before moving to the next one. If you want to stick to 5/3/1, here's an example:

Hypertrophy:

Squat 5/3/1 5's Progression

Squat 5x10 Boring but Big 50-65% TM

Hamstring exercise (pick one) - 50 reps

Calves exercise (pick one) - 50 reps

Strength

Squat 5/3/1 PR Sets

Squat 5x5 First Set Last

Hamstring exercise (pick one) - 25 reps

Calves exercise (pick one) - 25 reps

 

[moxieb]

@allysmiles3 You are talking in terms of strength, hypertrophy, and leanness.

Pick one to focus on. I would suggest it be strength. Forget everything else, it can wait. Decide that you are going to do everything in your power to get stronger.

Make the goal something like "I will squat 350 within six months" or whatever. Be specific and focused.

If you aren't getting stronger while following a solid program like 5/3/1, you're most likely not eating enough. It may require 6k+ calories per day. Wendler talks about a dozen eggs and a pound of ground beef every day. Rippetoe talks about a gallon of milk a day. Neither of these men are nutritionists, but the point is you need to eat a lot. When I was competing in strongman I was doing 5-6k calories per day and much of my training was some variation of 5/3/1. You will feel like you're getting fat, but you will also get stronger.

If that doesn't work then the next step would be to recruit professional help. The advice offered to get some bloodwork done is also sound.

There is a theory that there are non-responders to exercise but it is controversial.

 

[allysmiles3]

@moxieb I don’t understand people advocating for me to eat more in this thread.

I have gained weight and can do so at a steady rate, why would I need to up my calories?

 

[moxieb]

@allysmiles3 Frankly, you're small. You're trying to be both small and strong and it's not working for you. I suggest that you try to get big and strong. If you want to be smaller once you're there, that may work better.

My experience: I have been at this for about 20 years. Most of that has been using some form of 5/3/1. At your age I was 165 lbs. I have been as high as 240 while competing in strongman. I am now in my mid 40's and no longer compete, and I have a weight limit at my job. I'm just about as strong at 215 as I was at 240.

Eat more food. Or don't.

 

[allysmiles3]

@moxieb What’s a decent weight to aim for for a 6 foot make novice? I’m currently 185. Should I push to 210?

 

[moxieb]

@allysmiles3 I'd suggest that you not set a goal weight. Get as big as you need to be, to be as strong as you want to be. In my example above you would keep growing until you can squat 350.

Thinking about more than one thing at once can work sometimes, for some people. It's not working for you. So try only thinking about one (squat more weight).