Is 10 sets x 3 per week really too much volume?

[warrenmjones85]

I have seen so many post about people saying anything more than 10x3 sets a week is too much. However I have read Valentin and Flolit planche and front lever program and both of it has monstrous amounts of volume and intensity. For some example, the FL program recommends 25 sets 3 to 5 times a week and for tuck planche progression Valentin says to do 35 sets 3 to 5 times a week. Basically in 1 day these programs would do way more volume than people here do in a whole week. Do you guys think what they suggest is wrong? And if so why do they still progress so much despite the 'too much volume'. Please don't say they're doing that much because they're at that level. Tuck planche progression is suggesting 35 sets and FL 3s is suggested 25 sets so they're telling us who are at these levels to do that much.

 

[tylerx95]

@warrenmjones85 I think you’re mixing up sets and reps

 

[tiffaz]

@warrenmjones85 How to know if you are doing too much volume:

• Step 0 you are not making progress, feeling tired and you would procrastinate going to the gym if you could (or maybe you do).
• Step 1, you take a week holiday
• Step 2, you get 1 to 2 sets on the main exercise you want to train. You check progress or lack thereof and keep a log.
• Step 3, you increase to add a set. Once you do the amount of sets you target for an exercise, you start adding an exercise and sets. You keep a log.
• Step 4, usually, by this point, you have a good idea of what works for you and what doesn't. You check your training log and tweak some parts of your training. From time to time, you go back to step 1.

Volume is dependent on a wide range of factors and is very personal to you. We simplify for beginners assuming sedentary lifestyle. If you are competing as an athlete, even if you qualify as a beginner in the gym, you need more volume. You can only tell for yourself.

I recently did 2 sets only twice a week for pullups, coming down from 6 sets twice a week. It worked for a while and now I'm hitting a plateau. Guess what I will do?

 

[jw552]

@warrenmjones85 What is a set?

I don't have any experience with planche/FL programs, but I suspect a "set" might be somewhat different from, say, a set of 10-12 pull-ups that might take almost a minute and brings you close to muscle failure?

 

[sarangapani]

@jw552 This. I’d also like to know how close to failure they are at the end of a “set” and how quickly and how complete they can recover.

For example I could probably do 10 sets of pull-ups, each close to failure. But the last set would maybe have 2 or 3 bad repetitions while the first one has 12 or so. I’d also need several minutes between each set to recover somewhat.

 

[warrenmjones85]

@jw552 I would say a set is a series of reps / hold where you usually go 0-2 reps from failure

 

[jw552]

@warrenmjones85 Are you sure that's what they mean, the program authors? Because that does sound like a pretty ridiculous amount of volume to me. How is it even possible to do 25 or 35 consecutive sets of anything at 0-2 RIR and not be completely spent and unable to do even a single full rep?

 

[warrenmjones85]

@jw552 the front lever one even says max, meaning to failure for all sets

 

[kfourtner]

@warrenmjones85 Your post is missing the important distinction that it's a series of 7 sets of different exercises repeated 5 times, rather than 35 sets of the same exercise per workout

 

[aditemonroe15]

@warrenmjones85 I think you're getting things mixed up a bit. You should be doing 10-30 reps of an exercise close to failure for 3 sets, 2 days a week for every major muscle. That'll get you extraordinarily fit without overdoing it.

 

[john0733]

@warrenmjones85

still progress so much despite the 'too much volume'. Please don't say they're doing that much because they're at that level.

Unfortunately I really think that's the most likely answer here. Couple other factors too but mainly this, plus probably 90%of their time to dedicate to recovery. Advanced athletes have a really big work capacity and can recover from a lot of work.

Don't know their stats off my head but if I'm not wrong they're pretty light too so they may not be doing as much damage as if you're bigger and heavier.

But for the general population you may not be needing that much volume. Some could deal with it, maybe.. but the question is do you need that much to make similar progress?

 

[warrenmjones85]

@john0733 If you read the next line I said that Valentin suggested 35 sets for someone at tuck planche. So the someone at tuck planche would not have that high capacity as Valentin himself. For myself, I've been doing 10-12 sets with no progress, talking to some of the pro athletes, they all do about 15-25 3 or more times a week. These led me to think that 10 is not enough to reach respectable levels. I have used 10 sets to get to 5s front lever and advanced tuck planche and am stuck there. Currently I have the hypothesis that 10 sets will only get you this far (depending on height and weight) and that to get higher strength more volume needs to be built. I want to see if anyone on this sub has succeeded with something like 20 sets x 3.

 

[jah138]

@warrenmjones85 It's not that complicated:
- Work with the least amount of volume, while
- optimise progress
- increase volume when progress lacks
- 10 sets/week is the buttom end of the Recommended dose

 

[john0733]

@warrenmjones85 If you're plateaued using things like periodization and assistance exercises like pseudo planche pushups, handstand push-ups or weighted dips, or FL rows and weighted pullups for FL can help, instead of using all your sets on the static.

I want to see if anyone on this sub has succeeded with something like 20 sets x 3.

Might be wrong but probably no one on here. General reccomendation is 6-10 sets for ALL exercises in push/pull/legs category

 

[keziahnz]

@warrenmjones85 Why don't you just do your own thing rather than listening to other people, just find out for yourself what works for you and do that.

 

[sarangapani]

@keziahnz Lol, what kind of advice is that? Taken literally you’d throw decades of sport science into the garbage bin and just “do your thing”, whatever that means.

Of course you don’t have to listen to random people on the internet or even people who wrote their PhD about the topic. They are not your mum and dad.

 

[keziahnz]

@sarangapani I'm not sure what scientific research you are afraid of being discarded, as the OP mentioned he's confused about the difference in protocols in training volume and I merely said he test things out for himself to see what works best for him.

I don't know why that's so puzzling for you, although I am puzzled why you berated me for my input and proceed to offer your own inane and fatuous guidance..

 

[sarangapani]

@keziahnz OP is asking why the recommendations differ. Understanding why (and the purpose of training sessions) can lead to greater understanding you won’t get by just trying random things.

Besides, running tests on a sample size of one over weeks and months is damn difficult and time consuming and there are way too many variables.

 

[mordinsky]

@sarangapani The guy you replied to is saying that the very reason why the protocols differ is because people differ; we don’t all respond the same to the same training. And to that end, it is important to experiment in order to find what is optimal for oneself, especially if you are at a level where you are training difficult bodyweight skills like OP is. Does that make sense?

 

[sarangapani]

@mordinsky He didn’t say that but what you are saying makes sense. Kind of sucks though because that kind of experimentation is really difficult.

If I do 5 sets of 5 reps for 10 weeks and don’t see a lot of improvement in strength and then I switch to 10 sets of 8 reps and after 3 more weeks I suddenly see a lot more improvement, was it because I increased volume and dropped intensity? Or was it because of a dozen other tiny factors which might have changed in that time frame? Even testosterone levels vary quite a bit during a year.