@sarangapani That’s all part of what makes fitness engaging in my opinion.
Is 10 sets x 3 per week really too much volume?
- Thread starter warrenmjones85
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bodyweight fitness
@warrenmjones85 10 sets 3 times a week seems very inadequate to me. Especially if you are young and healthy.
For example, I'm a middle-aged heavyweight. I do between 16-24 sets 3 times per week (mix of bodyweight and weights), and add kickboxing (subbed with running if I have a strain/injury) and swimming on top of that. When I was in my 20s I could do the same except 5 times a week. So, back then it was about 80-100 sets a week, + martial arts and cardio.
Rest, recovery, stretching and nutrition are super important to keep that up. I de-load every few weeks. I take longer breaks or modify my routine when I have serious strains or injuries (which happen more frequently with age unfortunately).
For example, I'm a middle-aged heavyweight. I do between 16-24 sets 3 times per week (mix of bodyweight and weights), and add kickboxing (subbed with running if I have a strain/injury) and swimming on top of that. When I was in my 20s I could do the same except 5 times a week. So, back then it was about 80-100 sets a week, + martial arts and cardio.
Rest, recovery, stretching and nutrition are super important to keep that up. I de-load every few weeks. I take longer breaks or modify my routine when I have serious strains or injuries (which happen more frequently with age unfortunately).
@khensu9 This here. I recently getting back into shape 6 months now at 45 yr old 5 straight months was at 300 sets a week with 4 or 5 routines a piece. till some bad upright rows hurt me. Now dialing back when I feel strains too about yours maybe 25 to 30 sets a week with struggling ab work and man tiity flattening push ups
. Really found out only you can find what works. The journey is great tho
. Really found out only you can find what works. The journey is great tho@warrenmjones85 Your recovery would be more of the concern. Sleep, diet etc. Listen to your body though. It will tell you.
fallenonegee
New member
@warrenmjones85 What is everyone using to keep track of weekly sets?? Is there any app for this? I been searching for weeks
warrenmjones85
New member
@fallenonegee I just remember how many sets I do each training because that is the factor I'm trying to experiment next
fictrainingsock
New member
@warrenmjones85 If you injure yourself from pattern overload you'll set yourself back. Otherwise have at it.
@warrenmjones85 What are you training for? Strength, endurance or bulk?
warrenmjones85
New member
@nickmenai strength
@warrenmjones85 Dude. If you work up to it your body will adjust. I do up to 8 exercise supersets x3 after doing (I'll use chest as an example) 3x8 flat bench, 3x8 incline 3x8 decline (all at 295- 315) followed by the same with 100lb dumbbells. I spend 2- 4 hours in the gym everyday of the week yet always feel energized and pain free. Not trying to say look at me or brag, currently training for a body building show and going through some painful shit so this is how I heal myself.
@warrenmjones85 these are broad recommendations.
the answers are going to be different depending on which muscle group, what kind of exercise, what kind of rep range, training purpose and so on.
for example when training for absolute strength heavy weight, low reps, long rest periods, and high weekly frequency are the best. think smolov jr.
however when training for absolute size we are looking at less weekly sets, more rest days, high intensity but low weight and more reps.
and then comparing muscle groups. the calves can recover faster and handle a lot more volume than your quads for example. you want to train calves every day? be my guest. do that for quads and it’s a whole lot of junk volume or low intensity crap.
also women in general tend to have better muscle recovery than men. that doesn’t mean go workout the same muscle 6 days in a row. but you have a tiny bit more leniency.
the answers are going to be different depending on which muscle group, what kind of exercise, what kind of rep range, training purpose and so on.
for example when training for absolute strength heavy weight, low reps, long rest periods, and high weekly frequency are the best. think smolov jr.
however when training for absolute size we are looking at less weekly sets, more rest days, high intensity but low weight and more reps.
and then comparing muscle groups. the calves can recover faster and handle a lot more volume than your quads for example. you want to train calves every day? be my guest. do that for quads and it’s a whole lot of junk volume or low intensity crap.
also women in general tend to have better muscle recovery than men. that doesn’t mean go workout the same muscle 6 days in a row. but you have a tiny bit more leniency.
jam_allday
New member
@warrenmjones85 Depends. Idk Valentin’s programming. I’d need to see it to evaluate it. I’m sure he has a reason for such volume. It’s also possible that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
I’m assuming you meant 35 sets over a week of training with 3-5x frequency. That’s doable, maybe not ideal for beginners (heck, probably not optimal at all). You’d also need to factor in everything else b/c planche is only one component. What about your pulling? Legs? To write a program requires consideration of all of these factors, and not just prioritizing one at the expense of others. So realistically, 35 sets is too much volume that can’t be recovered from for most beginners, assuming these sets are within 1-2 RIR.
Most people cannot handle more than 20ish sets for a muscle group a week, regardless of what level you are.
I’m assuming you meant 35 sets over a week of training with 3-5x frequency. That’s doable, maybe not ideal for beginners (heck, probably not optimal at all). You’d also need to factor in everything else b/c planche is only one component. What about your pulling? Legs? To write a program requires consideration of all of these factors, and not just prioritizing one at the expense of others. So realistically, 35 sets is too much volume that can’t be recovered from for most beginners, assuming these sets are within 1-2 RIR.
Most people cannot handle more than 20ish sets for a muscle group a week, regardless of what level you are.
warrenmjones85
New member
@jam_allday I didn't read it wrong. The tuck planche section was a series of 7 sets to be repeated like a circuit 5 times, and he says to do this 3 to 5 times a week. That would amount to easily 100 sets at the minimum per week
jam_allday
New member
@warrenmjones85 Yeah, that’s not a beginner routine in the sense that it assumes you can handle tuck planche easily (reference how easy burpees are when used in circuits). Circuits are good for building endurance and some hypertrophy which I can see is reflected in the 777 method that he uses personally. Can’t really tell ya how it is without seeing the program myself, but I don’t intend to check it out even if I had the time. So not really much to say than to try it out and see if you see weekly or biweekly progress. I personally wouldn’t coach solely this way if the goal is to chase progressions, though I may use a similar model for conditioning—reason being it would need an individual intensification block to advance to a further progression, which might be difficult to do at the end of that sort of high volume block.
In this circuit sense, one set can be considered = one circuit since there are no rests between. This makes sense b/c if you counted the individual sets alone, intensity (quality) would be greatly improved. But with circuits, since there is no rest between sets, the fatigue carries over so you can count the set as a whole circuit. So you can justify volume in this aspect if you can complete the circuit without feeling too weak to continue the next one at the expected demands.
In this circuit sense, one set can be considered = one circuit since there are no rests between. This makes sense b/c if you counted the individual sets alone, intensity (quality) would be greatly improved. But with circuits, since there is no rest between sets, the fatigue carries over so you can count the set as a whole circuit. So you can justify volume in this aspect if you can complete the circuit without feeling too weak to continue the next one at the expected demands.
kingdomcitizen74
New member
@warrenmjones85 It depends. All sets taken to a failure? Left some reps in the tank? Do you count warm up sets? How intense are those sets? Are they more like skill learning sets or strength training sets or bodybuilding sets?
Can you recover from the workouts in time? Are you progressing, getting better at what you do?
You could also count reps instead of sets, I've seen some athletes do that.
It depends.
Also take into consideration that elite level athletes sometimes are unique individuals in a sense that they fall outside of the general population. The general population is 95% of people and the rest 5% are those who are the exceptions. For example (just pulled this out of my ass, but you get the idea) doing 4 sets of 8 three times a week works for the general population, but there are some (those of the 5%) who get better results doing less or more volume. Elite level athletes are an even smaller group of population, so their training can look really different compared to the training of the general population.
Tldr; if the general exercise guidelines really don't work for you, and you've checked your recovery (stress, sleep, nutrition), go ahead and experiment. But remember that skill learning is different from working out.
Can you recover from the workouts in time? Are you progressing, getting better at what you do?
You could also count reps instead of sets, I've seen some athletes do that.
It depends.
Also take into consideration that elite level athletes sometimes are unique individuals in a sense that they fall outside of the general population. The general population is 95% of people and the rest 5% are those who are the exceptions. For example (just pulled this out of my ass, but you get the idea) doing 4 sets of 8 three times a week works for the general population, but there are some (those of the 5%) who get better results doing less or more volume. Elite level athletes are an even smaller group of population, so their training can look really different compared to the training of the general population.
Tldr; if the general exercise guidelines really don't work for you, and you've checked your recovery (stress, sleep, nutrition), go ahead and experiment. But remember that skill learning is different from working out.
@warrenmjones85 Are you sure it isn't 3x10? 10 sets of 3 done 3 times a week is 30. That's insane. Even if those people survive it and THEY aren't doing too much, for other people, that would probably be WAY too much volume. It would be hard to recovery from that and be pain free.
joannesmith
New member
@warrenmjones85 Depends what you are training for. If it is for the planche and the front lever. Then holding these positions in a regression for 5-8 seconds of 1RM effort then resting 45 seconds and going again for 5 sets in the way to go. It can be done say once or twice a week. Together. And then after two weeks you can either apply the same principles for another progression, a harder one. Or you can stay on the same one and hold it for another 5 seconds or so.
trishapowell484
New member
@warrenmjones85 The question of whether a certain amount of volume is too much or not depends on several factors, including individual differences, training experience, recovery capacity, exercise selection, and overall programming. The volume that's appropriate for one person may not be suitable for another, and there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer. It's essential to consider context and the principles behind the programs you're referencing.
Valentin and Flolit are respected figures in the calisthenics community, and their programs are based on their own experiences and the experiences of their clients. Here are a few points to consider when comparing their recommendations with general advice:
Individual Variation: Different individuals have different recovery capacities and adaptability. Some people can handle higher volumes of training, while others might need more rest and recovery. Additionally, experienced athletes may be able to tolerate and benefit from higher volumes compared to beginners.
Progressive Overload: Both Valentin and Flolit's programs are designed with progressive overload in mind. They likely recommend higher volumes to challenge the body's ability to adapt and progress over time. However, these programs also typically involve periods of lower volume to allow for recovery and supercompensation.
Exercise Complexity: The exercises you mentioned, such as planche and front lever progressions, are highly complex and demanding movements. They often require higher volume to develop the necessary strength, stability, and skill. Smaller muscle groups, such as those involved in isolation exercises, might require less volume.
Programming Structure: Effective programming involves managing variables like volume, intensity, frequency, and rest periods. The programs you mentioned are likely well-structured to allow for sufficient recovery between sessions.
Sufficient Recovery: Recovery strategies, such as proper nutrition, sleep, and active recovery techniques, play a crucial role in handling higher training volumes. The programs may also incorporate periods of reduced volume to allow for recovery and prevent overtraining.
Goal-Oriented: It's important to remember that these programs are often designed for individuals with specific goals, such as achieving advanced skills like planche and front lever. The high volume is designed to target the muscles and skills required for those goals.
In summary, the volume recommendations provided by experienced athletes like Valentin and Flolit might work well for individuals who are specifically working toward advanced calisthenics skills. However, it's essential to approach high volume training with caution and consider your own training experience, recovery capacity, and goals. If you're unsure about how much volume is appropriate for you, it can be beneficial to seek guidance from a certified personal trainer or coach who can design a program tailored to your individual needs and goals.
Valentin and Flolit are respected figures in the calisthenics community, and their programs are based on their own experiences and the experiences of their clients. Here are a few points to consider when comparing their recommendations with general advice:
Individual Variation: Different individuals have different recovery capacities and adaptability. Some people can handle higher volumes of training, while others might need more rest and recovery. Additionally, experienced athletes may be able to tolerate and benefit from higher volumes compared to beginners.
Progressive Overload: Both Valentin and Flolit's programs are designed with progressive overload in mind. They likely recommend higher volumes to challenge the body's ability to adapt and progress over time. However, these programs also typically involve periods of lower volume to allow for recovery and supercompensation.
Exercise Complexity: The exercises you mentioned, such as planche and front lever progressions, are highly complex and demanding movements. They often require higher volume to develop the necessary strength, stability, and skill. Smaller muscle groups, such as those involved in isolation exercises, might require less volume.
Programming Structure: Effective programming involves managing variables like volume, intensity, frequency, and rest periods. The programs you mentioned are likely well-structured to allow for sufficient recovery between sessions.
Sufficient Recovery: Recovery strategies, such as proper nutrition, sleep, and active recovery techniques, play a crucial role in handling higher training volumes. The programs may also incorporate periods of reduced volume to allow for recovery and prevent overtraining.
Goal-Oriented: It's important to remember that these programs are often designed for individuals with specific goals, such as achieving advanced skills like planche and front lever. The high volume is designed to target the muscles and skills required for those goals.
In summary, the volume recommendations provided by experienced athletes like Valentin and Flolit might work well for individuals who are specifically working toward advanced calisthenics skills. However, it's essential to approach high volume training with caution and consider your own training experience, recovery capacity, and goals. If you're unsure about how much volume is appropriate for you, it can be beneficial to seek guidance from a certified personal trainer or coach who can design a program tailored to your individual needs and goals.