Hey everyone, I have noticed that many KB enthusiasts love programs that combine FS and C&P. I have never had success with these programs because of how much stronger my squats are compared to my press. I can FS double 32s for 5 reps easily, but I can only press double 32s for 2 reps. I have been focusing on increasing my overhead strength this last year, but it seems like such a large difference. Has anyone else struggled with this same issue? Did you find success with programs such as Dry Fighting Weight?
KB FS vs. C&P Weights
- Thread starter gina7arth
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- just a post kettlebell
@gina7arth I was able to solve this problem by completely shitwrecking my knee multiple times. Now my squats are just as weak as my press 
josephhayes
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@josephhayes Most of them were from jiu jitsu, so definitely tomfoolery.
curiousmel
New member
@gina7arth The solution is doing more reps for squats than for presses.
Since you are using the same weight for both, presses and squats, and since your legs are stronger than your upper body, the only way to increase the stimulus to your legs is by doing more reps.
For example, the Armour Building Complex (ABC), which is a very popular workout created by Dan John, consists of as many rounds as possible of:
So there you have it, for each press, you do two cleans and three squats.
This way it's possible to do many rounds, because your limiting factor will always be your presses, the weakest exercise.
Since you are using the same weight for both, presses and squats, and since your legs are stronger than your upper body, the only way to increase the stimulus to your legs is by doing more reps.
For example, the Armour Building Complex (ABC), which is a very popular workout created by Dan John, consists of as many rounds as possible of:
- Two cleans
- One press
- Three front squats
So there you have it, for each press, you do two cleans and three squats.
This way it's possible to do many rounds, because your limiting factor will always be your presses, the weakest exercise.
@curiousmel Thanks, I have tried the ABC before, and yeah my presses gave out before my legs felt tired. Maybe I’ll keep pushing my presses first and then try to add this into the mix
curiousmel
New member
@gina7arth In my case, the heart and lungs are the limiting factor. I can do many reps of clean&press, but if I mix them with front squats I end up sucking air on the floor.
So when I do clusters (clean + squat + press) I do it on purpose to ramp up my cardio. Otherwise, doing each exercise separately seems to be easier.
IMHO, we should take all the popular programs just as quick start guides. They're not written in stone and they're actually simple combinations of the same basic exercises.
You can come up with any combination of your choice, making sure that all the movement patterns are sufficiently trained along your week according to your goals. And the way to progress is to simply add reps, or sets, or weight, or by reducing resting time in between sets.
So when I do clusters (clean + squat + press) I do it on purpose to ramp up my cardio. Otherwise, doing each exercise separately seems to be easier.
IMHO, we should take all the popular programs just as quick start guides. They're not written in stone and they're actually simple combinations of the same basic exercises.
You can come up with any combination of your choice, making sure that all the movement patterns are sufficiently trained along your week according to your goals. And the way to progress is to simply add reps, or sets, or weight, or by reducing resting time in between sets.
@gina7arth You're looking for a solution to something that isn't a problem. Your legs are bigger than your arms and should be able to move more weight.
Programs like DFW and complexes like Armour Building Complex are usually limited by your pressing or your conditioning.
The solution is to either roll with it or program them separately, so your legs get enough of a challenge.
Programs like DFW and complexes like Armour Building Complex are usually limited by your pressing or your conditioning.
The solution is to either roll with it or program them separately, so your legs get enough of a challenge.
snowlucario
New member
@hunter101 People seem to forget that DFW was written and marketed as a fat loss program. The squats aren’t there to get your legs swole, they’re there to jack your heart rate and turn it into a full body conditioning session.
@gina7arth DFW and the Wolf seem to be generally directed towards non-running cardio, therefore lots of squat volume. That doesn't need heavy weight.
@gina7arth Easy solution just do less weight or less reps for your presses. More weight or more reps for your squats. You have a problem that a lot of us would like to have.
@mary157 That’s how I am doing it now, doing pressing focused programs and then adding in some sets of FS after. As for getting your legs stronger, barbell squats got me to a good level first. I started KBs being able to squat 3 plates for reps, and I don’t really think KBs can fully replace heavy back squats.
harveyboy81
New member
@gina7arth I usually find squats to be really tiring no matter what, and if I put them in a complex with double c+p it feels effectively brutal. I do DFW that way without putting the bells down, and I feel like it ups the intensity of the squats (though not in the same way as adding weight). And the volume really adds up, too. It’s more way squats than I would normally program for myself. I doubt any of this helps at all, just observations
@harveyboy81 Maybe I’m just a good squatter. I feel like a can squat for ages without an issue and my squat way outpaced my presses when I started working out. But I have always struggled with presses
harveyboy81
New member
@gina7arth If you want to get really brutal you could substitute split squats or something like that
@harveyboy81 Yeah, but those just suck. Good point though
@gina7arth I'm adding an invaluable comment as well!
What everybody else said: legs are bigger and stronger than shoulders.
C&P + FSQ are combined together because they flow quite well together when in complexes.
The "trick" is to either add more leg-reps when it's a reasonable (one could do DFW 1,2,3 for presses and have a different ladder scheme for squats) or do non-complex based training so you can move from 2xPressRM to 2xSquatRM and load each muscle appropriately. Or one can break the complex down in mini circuits with no rest beside putting the bells down, stepping over to the next pair and re-cleaning them. I did it a few times when double snatches were involved as my 8RM double press is a 0RM double snatch, so went down in bell size and back up to allow for snatches to be in the mix. It's not a crime i promise you!
What everybody else said: legs are bigger and stronger than shoulders.
C&P + FSQ are combined together because they flow quite well together when in complexes.
The "trick" is to either add more leg-reps when it's a reasonable (one could do DFW 1,2,3 for presses and have a different ladder scheme for squats) or do non-complex based training so you can move from 2xPressRM to 2xSquatRM and load each muscle appropriately. Or one can break the complex down in mini circuits with no rest beside putting the bells down, stepping over to the next pair and re-cleaning them. I did it a few times when double snatches were involved as my 8RM double press is a 0RM double snatch, so went down in bell size and back up to allow for snatches to be in the mix. It's not a crime i promise you!