Lagging lats after 7 years

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directork

New member
So I have been lifting for around 7 years (5 years seriously) and I have a pretty built body at 5’11, 205 lbs at around 15-17% bf with some visible abs and pretty happy overall with my physique.

But my lats are almost non-existent. I have a long upper body so it probably plays a role but I can’t make my lats grow. The last 2 years or so I have prioritized them and progressed in all exercises including different grips on Pullups up to 85 lbs for 3x5. Also progressed in various rep ranges on pulldowns, db rows and machine rows while dragging my elbows tight into my hips for lat bias.

I have also been using lifting straps and I do have an alright mind muscle connection.

Any tips? :)

Edit: pics:
https://imgur.com/a/7uU2AQK
 
@directork If you are able to rep weighted dead-hangs at your bodyweight +85 lbs your lats are plenty strong and developed. However, you are probably like me and might have very high insertions. Another issue, at least for me, is that one of the areas I hold fat is on the sides of my pecs in a band that stretches around to my lats. If I'm over 15% bodyfat, that area makes my pecs look much more full, but also tends to hide my lats and give me more of a barrel chested look. When I get leaner that goes away, my pecs shrink, but my lats are much more visible from the front.

The other thing that might be happening is that when you are looking at the mirror and trying to see your lats, you end up flexing them too much, either on purpose or subconsciously and that will actually "hide" them from view. It may sound counter-intuitive but you have to relax to get a good lat spread - it's one of the harder poses for most people to get right.
 
@benjaminthewolf Thank You so much, everything You write makes sense. I know they have to be pretty strong to have these lifts. I have no clue how to pose and tried the relaxed flex now and instantly saw them a bit more lol.

I just think it sucks as I think a wide back is the most aesthetic thing to look at when it comes to bodybuilding.
 
@edram I guess its the insertion point bothering me, yeah. I get comments IRL on how I dont look that wide (those who speaks dare to speak the truth).

I have never been on bb misc, but you probably see where my username comes from, lol.
 
@directork I’ll try to help, I’m not sure what I can do but let’s see.

I’ve been training for over a decade and my back is probably my best. I do think genetics play a role, obviously. But I tend to really enjoy slow eccentrics on my lat days, around 3 seconds with a slight pause depending on my meso. I also tend to, for me, do a crap ton of back volume. Mostly because I love it and it ended up working out okay because my back needed it.

How much have you played with adjusting volumes per meso?
What sort of movements do you feel best in your Lats? What really messes them up?
Have you tried changing up how you perform your eccentrics?
Ever try lengthened partials?
Have you messed around with different rep ranges? 5-10,10-20, 20-30?

I’ve always had shit triceps and side delts but I went ahead this year and changed up what I was doing and made them the focus and put my bigger things I don’t need to grow so much on the back burner on maintenance volumes. Then I went in and found movements that blew up my shit, left my ego at the door and milked it over and over again and have finally started to see growth again.

I think for us that have been training for awhile, we get kinda caught up in the way we do things. You did try a bunch of variations so that is a good sign to find out what you can exploit for gains.
 
@parrishchapel Thanks for the comment.
The last maybe half a year ive been training like Mike and Jared from RP preach if You are familiar with them. I have also upped my volume on back by a ton because it seems like I can handle it, very rarely am I sore.

Been implementing really slow eccentrics and full ROM where I stretch the last as much as possible (this usally burns on lat pulldowns and seated rows etc)

I hit them 2-3 times a week with 2-4 exercises for the whole back (usually 1 for upper back bias) and the last months everything from 6-20 reps. 3-4 sets per exercise, and I usually do everything from 0-3 RIR.

Regarding movements I feel the close grip neutral lat pulldown a ton in my back, but im just not sure wether its in my rhomboids or lats and it annoys me lol. Everytime I implement chins of some sort I usually get sore in my upper lats. I also feel my whole lat a ton in 1 arm cable row/pulldown where I rest one arm on the bench.

And to your last part, absolutely. It just feels «right» to do the same things we always have done, but I really wanna bring up my lats now, haha!

Glad that You brought your weakpoints up!
 
@directork Yeah I love most of what renaissance periodization. Puts out there. It helped me a bunch when it came to managing my per week and meso volume. I got pretty far in training like an idiot but the nuances eluded me.

What really helped was making sure I put my main stuff at highest volumes through my meso and all the other stuff was at maintenance volume or slightly above depending on my tier list I made for myself.

It’s kinda tough to do but you can figure it out which muscles need what volumes over time. If you’ve been training awhile I think you could get a sense of it, it doesn’t need to be perfect and you can make adjustments on the fly.

Ever read the scientific principles of hypertrophy book? It’s on audible. It’s also in a book and PDF I think? Really great book and gives a ton of advanced info that might help you out.

Also something I tend to fuc up on is the basics. Shocking how much 6 vs 9 hours of sleep goes for me. Hydration, meal timings so on and so forth. Oh, stress levels. Man it can mess me up being off.
 
@directork i dont know you exactly and your genetics but can share a few things that worked for me-
  1. Rowing beyond technical failure but only on machines
  2. minimises non chest supported rows and rowing back to the hips by adjusting seat
  3. weighted pullups with mostly neutral or underhand hand position
  4. volume- this might be subjective but i have realised that lats have a lot of tolerance for volume.. sometimes i go to 25-30 sets per week for them, so you can try high volume approach
 
@geobezing Solid advice. I like cable pullovers as well with a rope attachment. Really maximize the range of motion ('hang into the stretch'), without losing tension on the lats and squeeze for a second at the concentric. Like this guy does:

To be fair it sounds like it's a genetic thing and adding in different exercises probably won't make a huge difference it this point.
 
@12345 I have been trying out these lately too both at the start of the workout to «activate» the lats and sometimes to finish them at the end. I do feel a great connection with them
 
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