Let's Talk About Kettlebell HIIT

[juancarlos]

@firewatchduty I guess /@howardrf said that gains are bigger if you are close to the puke threshold. And I suppose that happens easiest if you are very fatigued. I'd like to learn more about alternative ways to reach the puke threshold by exercising. Can you push really hard without becoming overly fatigued?

 

[howardrf]

@juancarlos I think so, but the risks may not justify it. My goal is not to get the best gains. It is to get the most efficient gains in a safe manner.

As Pavel said in S&S, go hard during the set with proper form, but make sure to get enough rest for your body throughout the workout. As you get stronger, then you can experiment with decreasing the resting period or increasing the weight, so you don't reach that point of complete destruction and puke. I definitely would not recommend that.

 

[lady_of_rohan]

@firewatchduty [sup][sup]This.[/sup][/sup]

 

[howardrf]

@lady_of_rohan I agree about choosing the right tool for the job and I think it could still be a kettlebell.

This is just one study, but their conclusion is interesting. Comparison of Cardiorespiratory and Metabolic Responses in Kettlebell High-Intensity Interval Training Versus Sprint Interval Cycling

Kettlebells are more dangerous than cycling for inexperienced people. What do you guys think?

 

[lady_of_rohan]

@howardrf Well that study looks like crap.

Only had 8 subjects and (it's slightly unclear) but only seemed to cover 6 sessions- 2 introductory, 2 with KB and 2 on a bike.

The KB and bike HIIT sessions don't seem comparable.

The KB sessions were 3 circuits of 4 (unspecified) exercises, while the bike sessions were 3x 30 second sprits with masses (4minutes) of recovery. There is nothing 'high intensity' about this level of work to rest.

As a note look at Tabata which is 20 second sprints with 10 seconds of recovery repeated 8 times. It is high intensity because of its short rest and high repeat - the opposite of what happened in the trial you linked.

If you prefer KB that's cool but if you want to do effective HIIT there are far superior ways of going about it.

 

[juancarlos]

@lady_of_rohan I don't see how long rest dilutes the high intensity. AFAIK it's about intervals that are high intensity, not that the whole thing is high intensity all the time.

 

[lady_of_rohan]

@juancarlos Fair point - I had the original Tabata protocol in mind when saying the rests were long - Tabata is 20seconds on 10 off.

The study is still poor and I still wouldn't recommend KB for HIIT when there are better tools out there.

 

[juancarlos]

@lady_of_rohan Proper Tabata is from a different planet when compared to the Wingate. Tabata is over in 1.5 rounds of Wingate! And in fact this big difference makes HIIT a bit confusing. Tabata doesn't really let you rest, HR stays high all the time. Wingate's 4 minute rest should be enough for HR to get way down if you are in any kind of shape. So Tabata is glycotic training when it comes to energy systems and Wingate is borderline alactic and then aerobic.

 

[jim35215]

@lady_of_rohan I'm curious why you think a kettlebell is a poor tool for HIIT. It involves moving more muscle mass than a bike, and a heavy kettlebell will absolutely use 100% of your oxygen capacity.

The kettlebell isn't really usable for the active rest interval, but after a few sets of 44 kg swings, I'm strongly tempted to sit between intervals, just standing is "active", and if I do 10 sets of 10 every minute on the minute with the 44 kg, I will have the beginning of tunnel vision, as the brain runs out of oxygen.

The stationary bike does have an advantage in safety for beginners. You wouldn't want to push to that level of intensity unless you had kettlebell swings firmly embedded in muscle memory. Also, kettlebells aren't really variable intensity, unless you have a selection of weights. They work like a pendulum, so the speed is fixed. That means that you might have to adjust the time intervals to match the intensity of the work interval.

 

[lady_of_rohan]

@jim35215 I think you are making my points for me!

A bike will also let you use a 100% oxygen capacity, a beginner with a lighter KB (as a % of bodyweight might not achieve that).

A bike is suitable for a active rest interval.

The bike is safer for beginners AND a fatigued experienced KB athlete - the beginnings of "tunnel vision" with a 44kg bell might be safe for you but it would be pretty unsafe for many less experienced people. Even if you are an experienced KB athlete if you injure yourself doing HIIT and loose a weeks training thats annoying when you could have been sitting safely on a bike.

The bike can be varied in intensity - even if you have a lot of KB they still (almost always) come in 4kg jumps, so you have to change the length of intervals making comparing workouts and tracking progress harder.

A few other thoughts, its good to mix things up - if you are exclusively a KB athlete, then getting your HIIT in another way (run/bike/rowing erg) will stress different systems, so less likelihood of overuse injury and (potentially) better recovery.

tl;dr:
A bike is better for HIIT as it is:
safer, easier to use, easier to scale intensity, much lower skill bar to entry.

 

[howardrf]

@lady_of_rohan Thanks man. I know Tabata. The first article cited in the post uses Tabata HIIT Kettlebells if you're interested in that.

Edit: Also, 30 seconds of sprints with 4 minutes of recovery is known as the Wingate Test. It is one of the most studied Sprint Interval Training protocols. I summarized everything here at r/HIIT.

 

[lady_of_rohan]

@howardrf Cheers.