Looking for advice: mixing running and lifting

[nausicaa]

Hopefully this is the right place to ask since I’m not 25 anymore.

38M, 6’5, 245lbs

I weightlift 6x week (PPLPPL) but I’ve recently (past 4 months) really taken to cardio and increased my running to 4-5x week. About 4 weeks ago I reached the 15-mile mark, and I have stagnated in both fronts.

I’m an intermediate lifter: 365lb bench, 455 squat, 515 deadlift. I’ve been lifting for years but really started pushing weight last year after getting artificial disc replacement in my neck (c5-c7). Regaining feeling in my left arm/pec was life changing!

I’m a novice runner: 7:15 mile, 25:40 5k, 56:12 10k. My VO2max seems to be somewhere around 40-44.

Problem: If I try pushing running more, my lifting pays the price and I miss a ton of my weights; however, I do lots of tempo/sprint/recovery training each week and I do 10x100 sprints, but I’m not seeing any real improvements in my runs. I stretch and drink plenty of water but my calves still burn, ankles stay sore, and at around 8:30 pace my lungs start burning about a mile in. It’s been this way for 4 weeks now.

I don’t track calories, I was hovering around 18%bf prior to increasing my running so I started eating an extra PB&J for lunch but it hasn’t helped much.

I just feel incredibly fatigued and my deload weeks don’t seem to help much.

Am I not eating enough? Do I have reasonable expectations? Is 4 months still too soon for big results?

Thanks for any insight, I’d love to end the year in the 1400 club or a 21-minute 5k.

 

[absentia]

@nausicaa I pretty much ran every day from high school till my mid-50s (about 10 years ago). Been in and out of the gym all that time as well.

Want to first congratulate you on your stats - your 1RMs on major lifts as well as running distances and times. And dude - with your size your running stats are particularly impressive.

Let me share a few thoughts, hoping to be helpful. First, as others have said, goals are important - both in terms of your programming for both and how you balance the two. Second, just as with lifting running workouts should be periodized, both in the balance of speed vs endurance week to week as well as for targeted events over the year. Don’t train for a marathon at the same time you are working to up your 1RMs. Third-you don’t need to run every day. Four times a week with various types of workouts should be more than sufficient for anything from a 5K to a marathon. Fourth - pair your easier running days with harder days in the gym, and save the running intensity for non gym days. Fifth - do your cardio after lifting, preferably at least a few hours later but never before. Otherwise you’ll be too tired to push hard enough on lifts for any gains. Finally, if you start losing motivation or feel too tired you need to figure out how to back off.

And damn buddy - I see you’re a dad too. Same for me at your age, as well as starting a new career in a very difficult field.

All in all, you’re killing it. Sorry if this is a ramble. Main idea - you have years to make your goals. Just keep figuring out how to make your own balance. Best wishes man for all your goals.

 

[nausicaa]

@absentia I really appreciate that, definitely taking notes. As mentioned elsewhere, I’m not very prescribed in my approach so maybe I should start making more of an attempt at following a plan. Thanks again.

 

[absentia]

@nausicaa Feel free to send a DM if you have specific questions or want more info. I know I rambled a bit. But I really relate to your situation and goals. I have some recent posts if you want to check me out

 

[trushmoon]

@nausicaa I’m a runner and intermediate lifter (though you lift way heavier than me so maybe compared to you I’m a novice). What are your goals exactly? If you want to work on speed, then soreness might be remediated if you just focus on shorter distances. If you want to focus on endurance, you could run slower. In either case though, what’s been absolutely key for me is finding the right shoes and switching them out every 300-400 miles. I can tell my heels and knees starting to hurt right when my shoes are wearing out. In terms of running hurting your gains, I’ve been experimenting with running less. Not sure if I’ve seen significant muscle gains yet, but as a working dad, I simply don’t have enough time for a solid lift followed by a long run. So I save my long runs for the weekends and only do 20 mins or so after each lift because I’ve heard that a quick cardio session after a lift is good for fat loss and won’t hurt your gains.

 

[nausicaa]

@trushmoon I’m not nearly as prescribed as you, so maybe that’s it. My “long runs” are like 4-6 miles, I usually run 2-3 miles. No matter how slow I go I hit a pretty bad “soreness” wall in my right foot around 3 miles even if my max HR was only 145. Ortho said everything looks fine, so not sure what’s up.

My goals? 400 bench, 500 squat, 600 deadlift, and 45 minute 10k.

I don’t stagger my runs based on my lifts so maybe I’ll look at giving myself more rest between long runs.

 

[nrg23]

@nausicaa Similar lifting and running stats 520/360/585 SBD 21:585k and 48minute 10k.

I think the sprinting is hurting you more than helping you. That’s a bunch of sprinting….

I could be dead wrong but I also feel like you haven’t capped out your gains of running by just picking a 5k and trying to run a few seconds faster each time vs doing tempo work. I’ve never done any tempo work to get where I am at and I was never a serious runner in my adult life ( I was competitive provincially at the 800m and 1600m when I was in grade 8 lol). Could be just over complicating and over voluming your running training. I literally just ran a 5k every day at little bit faster each time keeping my heart rate at a max of 140 each time and the time kept lowering….

Again not really in any position to speak about running because I never had to do anything other than to a little faster each time to get better.

 

[savedintx]

@nausicaa When do you run vs. when do you lift? Also how long have you been trying to mix the two?

 

[nausicaa]

@savedintx Whenever my kids allow it, lol. Traditionally run early in the day and lift in the afternoon. Been mixing seriously for 3.5 months, almost 4.

 

[savedintx]

@nausicaa Running before will hurt the lifting. Try running after the lifting?

 

[nausicaa]

@savedintx I’ll try lifting first, a bit difficult with my schedule but we’ll see if it helps. Thank you.

 

[absentia]

@nausicaa I took another look at your running. I think 100 yard/meter sprints are not optimal for making gains on 5K, 10K runs. Let me recommend instead that you devote one run per week to the track- doing repeat 440 or 880 repeats at the same pace you are targeting for your 5Ks or 10Ks. A 21 minute 5 K is about a 7 minute per mile pace. Do an easy 1-2 mile warmup, then a set of 6 x 880s in about 3 mins (90 secs/lap) followed by 3 mins rest, then repeat. (or start with a slower pace/longer rest) if that is to much. When done - warm down with an easy 880. The first few weeks you likely feel like complete shit. But after 3-4 weeks you’ll feel the improvement. One other day per week do a 3-5 fartlek, and on the other two days some longer endurance runs at an easier pace (maybe after some harder days in the gym.). Trust me - the runnings gonna improve.

Meanwhile I’m still working for 315 repeats on my DLs. You are ahead of me there man, but I think there is about 70 lbs more of you

 

[frozenn]

@nausicaa How much are you able to sleep and rest? Having a kid can be tough. I would say you probably need to cut down a little bit, ESPECIALLY the sprints. You can slowly build back up, or go a little harder on weeks where you're more rested. You're might be pushing yourself harder than you realize.

 

[nausicaa]

@frozenn I usually get 7-7.5 hours of sleep.

 

[tkchapin]

@nausicaa I think it just depends on your goals. You can do both, but which do you want to excel at more?