Metabolic Resistance Training + 5/3/1 = overkill?

[sergeysidorec]

Hi all

24(F) 5ft6, 145lbs. I recently joined a local gym that does group mrt classes. A typical week of classes is usually x1-2 upper body, x1-2 lower body, x1-2 cardio/core and x1 full body. I've been going 4 times a week, and try to get a good combo. I really love the classes and would like to continue doing them.

Prior to starting, I was 2 months in to 5/3/1 boring but big 4 days a week. While most of the exercises we do in class use weights, it's usually higher volume (12-20+ reps x 3). I still enjoy lifting heavy and want to progress on my main 4 lifts, but I'm not sure if it's reasonable to do both.

I'm eating around 1700-2100 cals a day and try to hit at least 120g of protein. I'd like to lose some body fat and then eventually focus on gaining size and strength. What would be the best combo to meet by goals? Would the classes cannibalize any heavy lifting? Thanks.

 

[riverrat84]

@sergeysidorec If the classes had lower reps, I'd be less worried. 12-20 is alot and I never gotten much out of them (unless it was arms - biceps/ triceps etc) where I want a higher rep range.

I think it's just going to fatigue you - coming from someone who over did the classes.

Judge for yourself!

• do the heavy lifting first if they clash on the same day. See if you lifts drop over the next 1-2 months. Keep cutting back on the classes until you stabilise.
• Fatigue will be harder to track - notice if you find it harder to concentrate / get cranky easier.

 

[meow69]

@sergeysidorec You're at risk of burning the candle at both ends. Well, three ends - absolute weight (intensity), volume, and conditioning.

If you wish to continue with the hard conditioning you'll have to scale back the supplemental work (the sets after the first 531 sets - the 5x10) significantly and/or lower your training max.

Just to make sure we're on the same page:

Main work = percentage based 531 sets, done first

Supplemental work = done second, in your case the 5x10 boring but big sets

Assistance work = bodyweight, isolation work (curls for example), and other stuff done at the end

So your options are to reduce overall intensity (so dropping your training max to 85%) and/or volume. Dropping volume can be done daily (3x10 instead of 5x10) or weekly (train twice a week instead of four times a week).

What Jim has often recommended is for people to do what he calls "5s Progression" or "5s PRO". It means doing 5 reps on every 531 set (so on 3s week do 5 reps instead of 3 reps) and usually keeping the supplemental volume low by doing "First Set Last". This means take the percentage from the first 531 set (65, 70, 75% in weeks 1, 2, 3) and doing it for 5 reps and maybe 3-5 sets.

So if your actual max is 150lb then the three weeks may look like this:

Training Max: 130lb (~85% of 150lb)

Week 1
65% x 5
75% x 5
85% x 5
65% x 5, 5, 5

Week 2
70% x 5
80% x 5
90% x 5
70% x 5,5,5

Week 3
75% x 5
85% x 5
95% x 5
75% x 5,5,5

Either no assistance work or very limited to something like back extensions and curls or something.

This will allow for good clean reps on the barbell work which will slowly progress over time while you continue to do hard conditioning.

This could be done 2, 3, or 4 times a week. If twice a week, then your three-week 531 cycle will stretch out to 6 weeks (Bench and Squat in one week, DL and OHP the next week in a cycle). If three times a week then just follow the same order but stretch out the week:

bench, squat, OHP;

deadlift, bench, squat;

OHP, deadlift, bench;

squat, OHP, deadlift

and so forth

 

[sergeysidorec]

@meow69 Thank you for your detailed reply! So basically I should really focus on the 5/3/1 sets and just reduce the supplemental and keep an eye of fatigue?

 

[meow69]

@sergeysidorec Yes!

Exactly it.

You can also look into the Leader/Anchor concept for 531. Basically every few months you greatly reduce the supplementary volume and instead push for a rep PR on the main sets. So the top set you would push for as many reps as you can, take a rest, then maybe do the First Set again but instead of doing it for 5 or 3 reps you also do it for as many as possible. And then you're done barbell training for the day. So the overall volume is greatly decreased but you're still putting in some serious effort on just two sets.

Do that for a cycle and then get back onto the 5s Pro and First Set Last 3-5x5 mid-ground training (as opposed to 5x10 being quite high volume).

 

[truckerdan]

@sergeysidorec IMHO, yes…. Four times a week of your endurance type strength training + 5/3/1 is overkill. If you’re doing 5/3/1 three to four times a week, then you have no recovery days.

But I admit, I like to separate my cardio from my resistance training and prefer doing them on separate days, with the exception of my daily brisk morning walks, which I don’t do for “cardio”
even though it technically counts towards it.