My personal trainer pushing me to eat SO much protein!!! How do we agree to disagree!?!?

[cindyfernandez]

Hi I’m a 5 year vegan recently started working out with a Personal Trainer who follows a Ketogenic diet. I’m a female, 5.2 Feet, 103 pounds and body fat is 19%. I log my nutrition on Cronometer and have always been hitting near 100% on all RDA with avg 55g of protein. Trying to increase it to 80g. (0.8g per Ib)

I didn’t care if my personal trainer followed ketogenic because everyone have their choices and he told me that he is willing to learn about vegan diet and fitness.

Recently he started recommending me to eat 125-150g of protein a day with minimum of 100g. I had to tell him that’s not what I see recommended in vegan bodybuilding community. Sent him a few YouTube videos explaining it, Dr.Fuhrman’s recommendation PDF and a Game changer trailer.

The next day he said “I see vegan influencers recommending less protein but I don’t see any Doctor saying the same. I have 25 years of experience in fitness and I think 125-150g is a good amount of protein for you.”

Obviously he didn’t go over the info I sent him and I’m giving up. He is not willing to learn/do research for me. It does no good pushing him to do more research if he doesn’t even watch a video I personally sent him.

I’ve learned that if I take 0.4g/Ib of protein (40g) it would be enough for RDA and 0.8/Ib (0.8g)is more than enough to build muscle even for people twice bigger than me! I also read the study saying that more than 0.72/Ib of protein doesn’t even contribute to extra muscle growth!

Now he keeps saying “Do you get enough Iron? Why don’t you take protein powder? I know it’s difficult for vegans to get vitamin E!” while he says “I ate 3 slices of pizza and a block of cheese for dinner” “I fasted for 5 days and then I ate stake, 3 eggs, shrimp salad and chicken breast to break the fast.” I just listen but in my head I’m like “Do you know how many micronutrients you are in deficient and how dangerous your diet is!?!?!?”

I’m a peaceful vegan and I don’t want to fight but it’s getting on my nerve and making me mad internally.

I KNOW he is going to ask “How’s your protein intake going?” sometime soon.
What do I say? How do we peacefully agree to disagree while not making it sound like plant based diet is deficient in protein? How do I be respectful but stop him nudging about my nutrition? Help!

P.S. My personal trainer is a very nice person, just not open minded yet. He doesn’t mean any harm

 

[marinde]

@cindyfernandez

he is willing to learn about vegan diet and fitness

I have 25 years of experience in fitness and I think 125-150g is a good amount of protein for you.

Find another trainer. He doesn't have experience training vegan athletes. He doesn't care about your goals. Many trainers are terrible, and this one appears to be. Just because someone is a "trainer" doesn't mean they have more knowledge than what can be found in a short online course. For most it's merely a way to separate people from their money. Find someone who cares.

 

[sergiuspaulus]

@cindyfernandez I would tell him, "if I have to hear about all the animals you eat all the time, then I'm going to have to find a new trainer." In fact, I would try to find a trainer who isn't so ignorant anyway.

 

[dawn16]

@cindyfernandez honestly i would suggest either finding a new trainer or flat out lying. if he asks if you’re getting enough protein say yes and tell him you’re getting it mostly from tofu, protein powders, and protein bars since those tend to have the most protein for a moderate calorie amount.

you’re right about not needing an extreme amount of protein to gain muscle, and it’s likely that he’s just dealt a lot with standard bro knowledge and that’s what he’s basing his advice off of. i can guarantee that a good chunk of the athletes he trained in the past probably didn’t get every gram of protein he suggested, but fibbed when asked.

your trainer should listen to your desires and alter their programming and advice to cater to you, not spout off outdated lies about protein.

 

[cindyfernandez]

@dawn16 Thank you! I may just fib like you suggested. Don’t want to lie but I want to avoid any potential friction. I like him as a person. That might be an easier solution :/

 

[sergiuspaulus]

@dawn16 I would never suggest lying in any situation ever.

 

[liskev]

@cindyfernandez I mean, the absolute upper limit of protein I would suggest is 1 gram per pound of body weight, but that is only for very advance power lifters and/or body builders really. 150 grams of protein for a 100 pound female is absolutely ridiculous over kill and idk where he is pulling these numbers from. Plus, if this guy is a trainer and that's how he eats, that's a red flag too. If I were you, I legitimately would fire this trainer.

Edit: typo

 

[_h_]

@cindyfernandez I would maybe up it to 84 grams, but only on training days. The fact that you are using CHRONOMETER at all means you are mindful of your macros. Unless you are powerlifting or competing in a bodybuilding competition, I would respectfully tell this person to piss off.

Google Nimai Delgado. Vegan bodybuilding. He weighs 180 pounds and only takes in about 120-150. You can always cycle protein but it's terrible for longevity to overdo it

 

[dawn16]

@cindyfernandez 112g is suggested for me, a 140lb male, to gain muscle mass working out regularly. I think 120-150g for someone 103lbs is too much.

I think 80-90g would be good for you but I anything more might be overkill. Too much protein can end up causing strain on your liver and kidney so like anything else you don’t want to eat more than you need.

https://www.webefit.com/Calculators/Calc_protein.html

Edit: Anything over 150g protein would be overkill. You would probably be good in a range between 85-105g and I’d suggest being around there with 105g being on the higher end. You would be fine with 85-95g most likely.

 

[adriana144]

@cindyfernandez You seem like you may be familiar with Stuart Philip's work, but you may want to share a couple of his papers with your trainer since he's apparently not...

Nutritional interventions to augment resistance training-induced skeletal muscle hypertrophy

To account for inter-individual variability we propose the addition of two standard deviations to our estimate, yielding a dose of protein that would optimally stimulate MPS at intake of 0.4 g/kg/meal. In our view, ingestion of protein beyond this dose would result in no further stimulation of MPS [muscle protein synthesis]."

Another: Nutritional regulation of muscle protein synthesis with resistance exercise: strategies to enhance anabolism

 

[2cosmic2charlie]

@cindyfernandez It’s okay to disagree, but at the same time this is suppose to be making your life easier. Nutrition is 80% of it. I’d look for a new PT that has similar views like we all do. Nimai Delgato has a new fitness thing going! I did it before, met awesome people and enjoyed the workout challenges.

 

[daddylopez1963]

@cindyfernandez What makes you think you are more knowledgeable than your personal trainer? And if you think you know better than them, why hire them in the first place?

It's a little ironic you're criticizing them of not being open minded while not being open minded yourself.

100g minimum protein is reasonable for someone of your size. 150g may be a little overkill but isn't unreasonable. Could you get by with less protein than there recommending? Of course, but why not just follow their advice and see how it goes? It's not like it's hard to consume that much protein on a plant based diet.

Ultimately though if you aren't getting along with your personal trainer then fire them and find a new one.

 

[fastedandprayed]

@daddylopez1963 The recommended daily intake for the average (sedentary) women is 46 grams per day. OP is significantly smaller than the average women. Even doubling that advice comes in at under what the PT is recommending. The PT is either not adjusting for OPs weight or is following bro science. Either way, the PT is not doing his job well.

 

[daddylopez1963]

@fastedandprayed And why aren't people allowed to have differing opinions? Is that not closed mindedness, which OP is claiming their PT has?

The scientific literature shows all sorts of recommendations, up to 1g/lb. 103g of protein is scientifically justified for OP. No "bro science" required.

 

[cindyfernandez]

@daddylopez1963 Hi Thank you for the comment. I never thought of it from that prospective so thank you for giving me a chance to rethink of my action. I should be more careful.. I think I’m respectful of all of his carrier and the knowledge in fitness. And that’s the reason why I want to work with him. Also he is a great person! But when I’m told to just “eat xx g of protein” without any science backed up, I can’t help but to question. Especially if I find these kind of data. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28698222/ I’m not sure if I’m close minded but I like to search the evidence and look into science before I really integrate something in my life.

 

[daddylopez1963]

@cindyfernandez Have you shown him this study and asked for his thoughts? Based on that meta analysis your target should be 75g of protein.

An issue is the science is not consistent and many opinions exist. For example this study suggests consuming 2.2g of protein per kg of body weight, which would bring your protein target to 103g: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5852756/

It may be a matter that the two of you are simply looking at different sets of data.

There are also other reasons to consume protein beyond just gaining muscle. Protein is generally more satiating and increasing protein can help some people to stick with a diet regime more easily. Have you asked his reasoning for why the protein recommendation is so high?

 

[cindyfernandez]

@daddylopez1963 Thank you! I just read it briefly but that’s interesting. I’ll go see my PT tomorrow morning so trying to go to bed now but I’ll definitely read the whole thing tomorrow. And yeah, you’re right about 75g! That’s why I’m trying to increase my intake to 80g now. (Having a bit of trouble adjusting to get 80g of protein and hitting all RDA 100%.) But even if they recommend 1.6-2.2g/kg, I’m such a small person and not working out as hard as some of you guys so I think it’s ok to stick with 80g now. What do you think?

I would mention this study to him but I’m just a little hurt and sad from him not keeping his promise of “will look into vegan diet” that I don’t want to even bother him anymore. It seems like he is not actually willing to look into things and I don’t want to be rude to him by bringing this up.

 

[daddylopez1963]

@cindyfernandez He's meant to be working for you. Don't feel bad for asking him to do what you're paying him to do. If he's not the right fit then fire him.

 

[tinniestsoap]

@cindyfernandez

But even if they recommend 1.6-2.2g/kg, I’m such a small person and not working out as hard as some of you guys so I think it’s ok to stick with 80g now.

Sorry to jump in here 3 days late. I'm not a trainer or anything. I think a good question to ask yourself is whether or not protein intake is going to be a limiting factor for you. And the follow up to that is how quickly do you want to gain muscle mass? You can treat yourself like a farm animal and try to get the greatest gains in the shortest time, but that would also require a lot of workout volume in order to use all that protein.

I think 1.6g/kg is a perfectly reasonable protein amount. Have your trainer (or DIY) help you measure your progress by measuring body fat %, weight lifted. and body measurements, and if you're not satisfied, then you can consider if protein intake is holding you back.

Personally I dislike high protein diets. I feel heavier after I eat and I feel more limited in my food choices. Not to mention that a truly high protein diet is going to require processed food, which has more calories. I have eaten them in the past and at a causal level of working out, never really felt much of a difference. Now I also eat 1.6 g/kg, which is also what I ate when I was doing a shitload of cardio with thousands of feet of elevation gain per week. I use TVP and pea protein, which are OK but not ideal.

There are other ways to increase muscle gain: carbs are protein-sparing (because protein can be turned into glucose) so eat a high-carb diet, just like those guys that eat nothing but chicken and rice, LOL. If muscle gain or strength is your primary goal, don't overdo cardio. Eat a bit more calories than you burn. Increase your workout volume (more sets per week). Volume is probably the biggest determinant of muscle gain.

Finally, it's not exactly objective but you can see if you feel "run down" at your training volume or if you're detraining (i.e. not recovering between workouts). That could also be a sign that you could push your protein higher. But that's still only one variable--it could be that that volume is just too high and you need more rest or lighter weights. See the farm animal analogy above.

2.6-3.2 g of protein per kg is just ridiculous for a normal person IMO. Based on the studies we've seen in this thread, the only way it's useful is, if as strength athlete and scientist Lane Norton says, it isn't used directly but provides a kind of anabolic stimulus. So that level of protein is just a hedge against the possibility that it might be useful in some elite strength athletes who are desperate for any kind of edge. That's all.

 

[deut48]

@daddylopez1963 The fact he's wrong is a good indicator lmao