Need someone objectively eyeballing progress!

[evolutionhappens754]

https://imgur.com/a/qTaXOP4

Although I track my progress both with picture and stats, I have a really hard time seeing progression in my physical appearance. I only really see that I’ve gained mass in my belly, which has always been a spot I’ve been prone to focus on. I feel like I made little to no progress in my chest/shoulder/arms area. I would appreciate it if someone objectively could tell me if they see a difference in my body composition between the two photo’s.

I’ve been going to the gym for over a year now, but only really started going consistently over the last couple of months. I trained for a marathon at the beginning of 2023 which hampered my workouts in the gym, and work often forced me to go abroad often, disrupting my routine/flow. I notice that a lot of my attention, in and outside of the gym, goes to how (I think) I look. Sometimes I feel really good about how I look and I feel like I can actually see progress, at other times I feel as though I’ve made no gains at all, which really impacts my motivation to continue working out with this routine.

I’m currently going to the gym 4 times a week in a push/pull split, training each group twice a week. While I focus on a good intake of protein and a healthy diet, I do not count my macro’s/calories. I did so during my marathon training and noticed that it’s just too much to take into account as well. I just try to focus on enjoying my gym routine, eating healthy, and consuming enough daily proteins. I barely drink alcohol, if at all.

Any insights are greatly appreciated! If people want to share stories about similar situations, those are greatly appreciated as well.

Body measurements:

Body weight: 84.0kg (185 lbs) --> 86.7kg (191 lbs)

Body fat percentage (measured with callipher, Jackson/Pollock 3) 20.08% --> 17.04%

shoulders circumference: 121cm (47.6 inches) --> 125cm (49.2 inches)

Chest circumference: 97cm (38.2 inches) --> 102cm (40.2 inches)

belly circumference: 95cm (37.4 inches) --> 96cm (37.8 inches)

bicep/arm circumference: 29cm (11.4 inches) --> 32cm (12.6 inches)

 

[livingme7]

@evolutionhappens754 Your brogress is hidden beneath your bodyfat and you grew pretty uniformly, that makes it harder to notice.

 

[asperd]

@livingme7 Yeah personally when I looked at a shirtless unflexed relaxed pic of me last month after rolling out of bed that I took with my tripod (easier to see both my arms and body than taking mirror selfies with my phone) to monitor the progress of my bulk I thought to myself "why do I still look DYEL." But throughout the day, not just after a gym pump, I can see that I'm more muscular in the mirror. And I took a picture of me in a short sleeve t-shirt shirt 3 weeks ago, I thought "dayum I'm coming along." 2 months ago was when I first started getting compliments IRL in a t-shirt. And I've seen guys who are small and lean look jacked shirtless. So I think body fat just gives guys the illusion of being DYEL. And being lean gives you the illusion of being jacked. But once the skinny guy puts a shirt and pants on, you can't tell they lift. Lmfao. Whereas the bear mode guys look like they lift in clothes but don't look as aesthetic shirtless.
I also looked at an old shirtless pic of me from June 2022 before I started lifting and weighed less than I do now. And I had more fat in my face back then, way more fat on my torso, way less muscle on my torso, ab visibility was way less back then. I didn't take pics of my lower body in 2022 but I'm assuming my lower body is bigger now. So I've moved in the right direction. Progress just happens slower than I had expected.

 

[harley]

@asperd Yes that's true, when I have a shirt on you can't see that I lift unless you know how to look. For example someone who doesn't lift will have almost straight shoulders to the neck, for someone who does the trap muscle makes it go up at 45° to the neck or something like that.

 

[kiril7]

@evolutionhappens754 The pictures are kinda rough in quality but as far as I can tell you clearly have a more developed chest and shoulders with a slimmer waist. You definitely look more fit on the right.

 

[sue21]

@evolutionhappens754 You grew everywhere a little bit, so it’s harder to notice. Your chest is the most noticeable difference.

 

[533th3r]

@evolutionhappens754 You've made decent progress. The 6 month transformations you see online are almost always unnatural. Just keep working on in. Maybe go for a cut next summer, so you can really see what you have build. Your waist circumference shouldn't get much higher to be honest.

 

[evolutionhappens754]

@533th3r Thanks for your comment. Do you mean, with the last line, that if I keep going at it, my waist will not grow that much in terms of circumference, or that I should watch out/keep an eye on it and should not let it get much higher?

 

[533th3r]

@evolutionhappens754 I would watch out so it doesn't get much higher. I think over 1 meter is in the very high risk zone. Above 94 cm is already in the high risk zone according to the British heart Foundation for example.

To be honest with you, I don't think you are 17% body fat. Your progress is good, but I don't believe losing 3% body whilst gaining a centimeter on your waist. So now that I think about it, it probably already is time for a cut. You can still gain muscle while losing fat at your point so that's what I would go for if I were you. Also if you have any questions about lifting or diet or anything just ask away

 

[evolutionhappens754]

@533th3r Thanks mate, appreciate it. I agree that I don't necessarily believe that I'm at 17% either, but the thing is that measuring myself with calliphers is extremely tedious and not a really good indication of body fat level. I've just added the progress since I already measured it once in may. There definitely is less body fat in my chest, but not sure if that accounts for 3% of the loss.

About your recommendation of cutting, how realistic is it that I'll still grow muscles in a cut? It feels like I've only just started my routine, don't know how smart it is to change my diet again and focus on a caloric deficit. I've read that part of beginning with the gym is just only focussing on increasing the workload each session and worry about cutting/bulking later.

 

[533th3r]

@evolutionhappens754 It is pretty realistic to gain muscle in a calorie deficit as a beginner. I would keep protein high though. Just go for a small deficit. If your progress gets really stale you could up your calories a bit and switch to maintenance calories. You could probably lose weight until you are 80kg first and still make good progress. It will feel like more progress as well, because changes will be more visible.

 

[evolutionhappens754]

@533th3r Alright thanks, I'll consider it. Any good way/calculator you'd recommend to calculate my caloric maintenance numbers?

 

[533th3r]

@evolutionhappens754 A TDEE calculator can do that for you. However it usually asks about your activity level and this is where it can become a bit tricky. It won't be a 100% accurate, so you can just take the results from the calculator as a starting point. So if it says your maintenance is 2800 for example you can start at 2300 calories per day. That way you should lose about 0.5kg per week. If you don't lose weight weekly you should lower your calories.

 

[evolutionhappens754]

@533th3r I actually have a question about this. Let's say that such a calculator proposes that my maintenance level is 2800 calories, taking into account my input for activity level. What does that mean for my actual calorie counting? Say I would want to maintain, and I decide to do a easy run that burns 300 calories, should I add those 300 calories atop of the 2800 calories that the calculator proposes is my maintenance? Or is that already calculated when I gave the input for a certain amount of activity per week? Hope you understand what I mean!

 

[533th3r]

@evolutionhappens754 The calculator will give an answer for your activities you usually do. So if you say I work out 3-4x per week it will take that in account. If you add a run to it you're probably burning a bit more. So theoretically speaking you could eat 300 calories extra and still lose the weight. However like I said it's an estimate, you won't exactly know how much you burn. So it goes a bit by trial and error.

 

[asperd]

@evolutionhappens754 You only gained 6 lbs in 4 months. That's a 173 daily calorie surplus. That's a very lean bulk. So I don't think you gained much raw body fat. You might have even lost some actually because your body may have recomped some fat to muscle because your calorie surplus is below the low end of the recommendation for a lean bulk (200-300) and youre in the newbie gains phase. You definitely gained muscle mass from what I can see. Pecs are bigger.

 

[dawn16]

@evolutionhappens754 Bro you look like someone who hits the gym now. That’s fuckin great. Keep at it

 

[imnotjokingwellnotmostly]

@evolutionhappens754 Natural bodybuilding takes time

 

[choukyou]

@evolutionhappens754 No offense or anything, but as a natural I feel like you havent really focussed on a proper training split and diet. You might've worked out but your diet is probably questionable. The main cause for concern is your increase in waist circumference.

 

[evolutionhappens754]

@choukyou No offense taken! The increase might've also been due to the fact that I've eaten quite a bit of quark yesterday evening before going to bed. I've took both pictures immediately after waking up, so before going to the toilet or anything. Not sure if that might be the cause.

That being said, what would you recommend? Should I count my calories or focus on a specific number of caloric intake? I know this varies from person to person. Is your waist circumference supposed to decrease, even when bulking?