Pressing Standards Parallels?

[hd8e8dx]

There have been many threads asking about general and KB-specific strength standards (i.e. if you can press this you are not very strong/strong/very strong), this isn't that (I used the search function -- maybe not optimally, but I did!)

What I'm curious about is this -- if I can press X weight KB Y number of times, how many times should I be able to press (X+n) weight KB? And if I can press X on a one-handed press, what should I expect to do for a double overhead press?

Along the same vein, should the 1RM calculator on exrx.net be expected to translate the same to KBs as to barbells? And is there an equivalent for one-handed vs two-handed work?

For example, say I can reliably press a single 20 kg bell for 8 reps:

How many times should I expect to be able to press double 20 kg bells?

What should I expect to be able to get for a 1RM? (calculator says 30 kg)

I'm thinking about these standards not in a "if you can do this, you are strong," way, but more in a, "if you can do this but not that, you should work on your [power production vs endurance vs bilateral work]" kind of way in order to stay balanced.

I am just gonna try all this next week and see what I personally get, but I want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.

ETA: if anyone else is searching for similar in the future, I tested today:

Previous 20kg one-hand press RM was 8.

Today double OHP with 20kg, I got a 5 RM.

 

[wezo777]

@hd8e8dx I’ve been trying to work through something similar, and I have a lot of issues with unilateral pressing not making sense. The biggest problem I’ve found centers around the amount of lean required at higher loads. As the kettlebell exceeds a certain percentage of your body weight, you have to lean a bit further off center to maintain balance. Unfortunately this also means the angle of your press is a bit different, so strength built at a different load may not translate with 100% accuracy.

I have found this particularly significant with Z press, where every 1RM calculator I’ve found says I could press the 48kg for multiple reps…but I most definitely can’t (yet).

 

[hunter101]

@wezo777 Single kb presses are definitely a special case. My own rule of thumb has always been that if I could strict press a weight for 10 reps I'd make the next 8kg jump. So far it's worked out fine, but 40 and 48 have required increasing amounts of lean to make it work.

Sweet mentioned about a year ago that double kb press translates better to single kb press, which seems about right to me. On the other hand, just focusing a lot on single kb snatches has been enough to make me better at double kb snatches.

There can also be a great deal of individual variation in how much rep and 1RM strength transfer to each other, and that can even vary per lift.

For explosive kb lifts, going up in weight can be really tough. I could barely snatch a 40 on my first attempt (though I could barely make 5 singles each side), despite 32 being a 15RM or so. I could barely clean 2x40 the first time I tried (and had to do swing + clean), despite 2x32 probably being a 13+RM.

 

[wezo777]

@hunter101 You know I’ve never really tried for rep maxes with snatch. I can snatch and dead snatch 48kg, but I’ve never snatched 32kg more than 10 reps on a single side before switching hands. I did notice that cleans seem to have very poor crossover from unilateral to bilateral. I cleaned 48kg 40x without putting it down, but damn near died the first time I tried to clean double 48s.

 

[doulos74]

@wezo777 You two must be built like absolute bears if you're cleaning double 40 and 48's. Respect!

 

[wezo777]

@doulos74 I’m built like a very average person. A lot of strength can be built without hypertrophy. Aleksandr Khvostov can snatch the 48kg 50 times, and he’s a little guy!

 

[doulos74]

@wezo777 Yeah very true. Keep it up pal!

 

[wezo777]

@doulos74 Thanks brother!

 

[learnandbloom]

@hd8e8dx I believe those calculators have a bigger margin of error the higher the rep count but I don’t fuck around with math.

The safest bet is that 15 single arm reps can get you to 10+ reps with the same weight using doubles. If you’re just shy of 10, I think you’d get there with a week or two of practice.

Other than that… I think that you’re fine with just trial and error. 2 to 4kg jumps from 24kg bells should be doable on most programs. Going from 24 to 32 is doable as well if you are comfortable with your push press. And as @wezo777 mentioned, there is a lot of weirdness. I think I could press a single 24kg for 15 reps, but it took me about two weeks to get my first SOTS Press with a single 16kg bell. I kept standing up while pressing. I’m sure that I had the strength, just not the wiring.

 

[itsmybeautifulsoul]

@hd8e8dx If you are comparing the same movement with the same form, then the 1RM calculators will work.

Caveats:

• People can typically do fairly high reps with a certain weight KB, and the 1RM calculators become more erroneous the more reps off 1 rep you are. I.e. the predicted 1RM from a triple is more accurate than from a 10 rep set.
• 1RM calculators work better with barbells because the load is usually higher and therefore the numbers/fractions the calculator has to work with are larger, giving you a more meaningful number as the answer.

 

[betterthani]

@hd8e8dx Adding a second bell changes the equation drastically for me so I couldn't say, "I strict press the 20kg 10 times therefore I can strict press double 20kg 5 times", the load of a second bell hits me harder than it does with comparable barbell weight. Could be how the bar distributes the weight more evenly than kb's?

 

[hunter101]

@hd8e8dx I get the curiosity, but there are just too many factors to give you an answer.

My rep max for 2x32 C&P is pretty much the same as my 1x40 press,at something like ~11-14 reps. I can C&P 2x40 for a single rep (and probably still press 1x48 for a single, maybe even 2 reps).

One challenge with doubles is that while the press is a bit harder (by virtue of eliminating your option to lean), the clean is twice as heavy.

 

[jenniferp]

@hd8e8dx Are you asking how much KB work transfers to barbells?From what I've read as I too was interested in figuring this out,barbells are a different tool,different technique and different nervous system output,so not direct 100%,you certainly will increase your deadlift doing swings,cleans and other kb compounds without training it specifically(up to a point),you certainly gonna have some headstart on barbell press and barbell front squat,as loading is somewhat similar,but your body still needs to adjust to these tools

As far as "if I press 20 kg bell 5 on one side,should I be able to do the same with doubles?",the answer is not-you probably won't be able to,because your rack position,your lower body,trunk,are not used to double the load,so in short-doing more doubles translates to doing more singles and not vice verca,for majority of people it is the case.

Can't help you with calculator for 1rm,but if you are able to double front squat the weight you want to press for sets of 5-8,you can probably press,you most certainly are able to push press it or jerk it

 

[hd8e8dx]

@jenniferp Not looking to go from KB to BB, and don't expect to be able to double work with a 20kg bell -- more like, if I can do a single 20 kg for 8 reps, is it reasonable to expect to do a 28 kg bell for a 1RM? is it reasonable to expect to be able to do double 20s for -- say, 3 reps?

Thinking about it because I recently watched a Dan John video where he talked about his Sleepless in Seattle standards as a way to find someone's weak points. The comparison is admittedly strained, however.

 

[jenniferp]

@hd8e8dx Oh,then I misunderstood you.If I recall correctly,being like 3-4 on each of them on average is good place to be in.

Regarding the pressing-you can probably squeeze out at least one of them on a heavier bell,given that you press previous weight,as you said,for at least 8 times,with good control.

 

[dawn16]

@hd8e8dx I don't think there's a universal if you can do x reps on one side you should be able to do y reps with doubles. For most people the way the press a single is not exactly the same as the way they press doubles as the balancing is different. In addition to that the systemic stress shoots up alot as we talk bigger kettlebells. It's alot different comparing single arm presses with 24s and double 24s to singles and doubles with 40s

 

[hd8e8dx]

Update for anyone interested or possibly searching this in the future. Previous single OHP was 20 kg for RM of 8

Tested my double OHP today, got up 2x20 kg for a 5 RM. Better than I expected, and doing 2x16 kg for 5 was an absolute breeze.

No idea if this is typical, or if it scales as weight goes up, but there’s a data point for ya.