[QUESTION] initial weight for a 15y/o

[justg]

Hello comrades.

What's an appropriate initial weight for a 15y/o male?

I'm asking for my son.

 

[juancarlos]

@justg Weight, regardless of age, depends on a) your fitness, b) your skill, and c) what you want to do with the kettlebell. 8 or 12 lg is probably a good starting point but teens should grow fast.

 

[justg]

@juancarlos What program do you recommend? I was thinking in start with s&s. With the drills the first month and then start to do proper swings and weighted tgu changing the rep scheme an throwing anothers exercise from time to time to keep his interest.

 

[juancarlos]

@justg Frankly that is mad slow. The drills for a month? That's like after surgery recovery time. S&S is a good start, though Dan John wants kids to do a bit of everything. They need to try out things. So yeah, swings, getups, but crawling, pullups, whatever the recommended routine at /r/bodyweightfitness includes.

 

[justg]

@juancarlos

Dan John wants kids to do a bit of everything. They need to try out things. So yeah, swings, getups, but crawling, pullups, whatever the recommended routine at /r/bodyweightfitness includes.

Yes, i was thinking at least in push ups, crawling, loaded carries, the core section of the RR and some stretching.

Frankly that is mad slow. The drills for a month?

Maybe I exaggerated a lot. But he have really bad hip movement patterns (like starting pike flexion from the back). I think bw deadlifts, and then kb deadlifts can help alongside the drills. But i have to see how he takes.

 

[dawn16]

@justg If he has the patience then I can’t foresee an issue going slow. Especially if he trusts you and you guys are collaborating.

 

[iamabcy]

@justg What can he press 5-7 times on each side, if different pick the lower number. Dumbbells are fine for the test, keep the weight in 4kg increments

 

[anonymousgirl26]

@justg If you are doing simple and sinister,



12kg for swings and 8kg for get ups to dial the form down (everything should look perfect.). Then 4kg jumps with two weeks between jumps after he can handle the test conditions with perfect form. The swings should be crisp and the getups should be very slow and controlled. Once he meets the criteria bump up the weight 4kg and then stick to that new practice weight for at least a month.

 

[donstookeerek]

@justg Greetings, comrade,

Pavel (an authority on kettlebells) advises 16kg for adult males and 12 kg for adult females. You have said you have a 12 kg. This should be fine.

Your question depends on some more factors, though. How athletic (fit) is your son?

Also, 15 is a common age for heart problems (the teenager grows too fast and their heart takes a while to catch up). If you have concerns, please make sure his doctor appointments are up to date.

Good luck.

 

[justg]

@donstookeerek Hi. He isn't a couch potato and he have a normal weight. He practice karate twice a week and from time to time ride in his bike.

I'm more concerned with injury than general medical condition. We have he in check with controls.

 

[donstookeerek]

@justg Good! So, injury should not be a concern with proper technique. Depending on the school of karate, they might already work with free weights there.

People here advise S&S, and it's a good one, but it's not very varied. I would also say take a look at something like Russian Kettlebell Challenge. Pavel's good at explaining exercises step by step, and he stresses avoiding injury.

I've trained with a 16kg for a short while now, despite being biologically female. No injuries, not even bruises.

 

[justg]

@donstookeerek Thanks!

Depending on the school of karate, they might already work with free weights there.

No, they only do calisthenics.

I comented to other comment that I'm thinking in taking s&s like base, adding exercises without much programming for the sake of variation, but I will see the Russian kettlebell program like you recommend.

 

[donstookeerek]

@justg To clarify, it's not a program, it's another book by Pavel that does a good job of explaining proper technique of different kettlebell exercises. Although I believe different programs are listed there too. Simple and Sinister (at least, the edition I read) only talked about swings and TGUs.

In addition, there's also a lot of resources for KB lifters online, and taking a look at them can be helpful.

 

[justg]

@donstookeerek Thanks!

 

[dqgg]

@justg You should use no more then 15% of your body weight is what I learned in A&P but I know when I was that age I was definitely lifting more. Good luck, have fun.

 

[juancarlos]

@dqgg

You should use no more then 15% of your body weight is what I learned in A&P

Why? That makes no sense.

 

[kcame30]

@juancarlos Yeah, it makes no sense on a couple levels. One of them being that no one teaching A&P is talking about how much weight to use for a 15 yo male learning kettlebells.

 

[donstookeerek]

@juancarlos I assume because teenagers aren't advised to lift heavy, as it can stunt their growth (I believe there are studies on that)

 

[juancarlos]

@donstookeerek That's a myth that it would do so and not true. I'm sure /r/Fitness is full of explanations on why it is false.

 

[donstookeerek]

@juancarlos I checked some studies first, and I'm ready to agree with you with one caveat. (This isn't a detailed lit review, of course.)

Dahab and McCambridge (2009) speaks positively about strengh training in young athletes. It's a bit more vague on growth plate injuries than I'd like, but basically, the causes are "lifting inappropriate amounts of weight, using improper technique, or training without qualified adult supervision".

Matos and Winsley (2007) explain in detail why resistance training can be beneficial even to pre-pubertal children (who don't have the hormones associated with increases in strength). However, they also dedicate a section to overtraining in young athletes. They acknowledge that the data on that subject is limited and they insist that further investigation is necessary.

While this is speculation on my part, it's understood that young athletes are more dependent on their couches than adults would be. It's up to their trainers to recognise that and to prevent possible injuries (here I'll just say it in layman's terms: because kids and teens can be dumb or hot-headed. So either they'll push themself to do something they're not ready for, or their trainer will, and that's a lot of potential for bad times.)

Malina (2006) is an evidence-based review that also notes that weight training is relatively safe (with a caveat that half the studies reported injuries).

Finally, Myers et al (2017) devotes a section to injuries in resistance training. The consensus seems to be "no more dangerous than any other sport, with proper supervision". Though it must be noted that back injuries are very common among weight lifting injuries.

Conclusion
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Basically, weight lifting is safe if you know what you're doing. Granted, not all teens do, but common sense and a competent trainer should make sure they're safe.

In the future, I want to look at other possible mechanisms of injury aside from growth plate injuries: e.g. how does increased bone density influence growth.