Questioning my progress

[d33smth]

@johnc101 That calculator is helpful, thank you!

 

[masonmatt1000]

@d33smth You need to bulk to 200lbs

 

[d33smth]

@masonmatt1000 That would probably put me somewhere around 20% bf tho

 

[jcp1988]

@d33smth Then cut after. U can’t be scared to bulk. Just don’t go over 20-25% bf

 

[d33smth]

@jcp1988 you're definitely right, I shouldn't be scared to bulk. I guess I'm just worried about losing strength on a cut, because I remember how much of a hit energy levels can take on a calorie deficit. But I guess I'll just have to keep the deficit not too big, and just trust I will be better than my last long cut.

 

[jcp1988]

@d33smth Keep a small but long deficit. You’ll lose strength and energy but it’s part of the process

 

[d33smth]

@jcp1988 What deficit would you recommend?

 

[jcp1988]

@d33smth 200-500. Listen to guys like Jeff nippard and Alex leonidas. They’ve been extremely successful with their long bulks/cuts for this very reason. Jeff made a vid on cutting recently that you should check out. But both these guys benefitted from doing huge bulks (6+ months) at a low surplus (200ish calories) and then a slow cut

 

[d33smth]

@jcp1988 I love Jeff. Got it, I will maintain my 200 surplus on lean bulks and a 300-400 deficit on cuts moving forward

 

[masonmatt1000]

@d33smth You’d be well over 20% body fat. If you want to be skinny, be skinny. If you want to add mass, you bulk and cut later. Ignore all the maingaining absolute BS. You’re not going to weight 200 pounds if you never weigh 200 pounds, get it?? Bulk and cut.

Back when I was in my late teens I was perpetually 170 pounds cause I never wanted to lose my abs. But I got tired of being small. I bulked to 200, cut back to same leanness at 177. Bulked to 220 cut to 185, etc. I’ve bulked up to as high as 265 and I hold at 210 (depleted) at 15%. I’m around 220 hydrated and with food in me, ya know, normal walk around weight. That means contest lean at about 190 pre water cut. It’s just the way it is bro. Also 6’ tall.

 

[d33smth]

@masonmatt1000 Damn, yea I get it, it makes sense. Just the idea of getting up to 20% bf is kinda scary, because that would be a long road back down to 10%

 

[aymgoa]

@d33smth I feel you man. I have a similar journey.

In general you don't look like you gained much muscle from pic 2 to 3. But you might have. Try dexa scans. Or at least track your waistline. If that stays the same then keep bulking, it means you're putting on muscle. You're probably at 14% right now. I would keep going until you get to 20%. Then reevaluate. You can probably get to 180. Then do a mini cut down for 6 weeks and loose 10lbs. Then rinse and repeat. I think your on the right path. Also I think you can gain a little faster, like up to 2lbs a month or 0.5lbs a week. So a 250 calorie surplus per day.

My story:

Also 6 foot. But like 10 years older than you. Went from 190lbs down to 145lbs/12%bf in 2020. Then did a slow Bulk 8 months in 2021 to 162lbs. I did dexa scans and only 4 of the 17 lbs gained was lean mass. Mostly probably water/glycogen retainion. Then decided to cut because I was around 20%bf. So I went back down to 150lbs~15%.

Like you said was trying to do everything right. Lift near/at failure. Good sleep low stress. Diet on point.

Half of 2022 I stopped tracking and gained 20lbs to 170. I was still lifting 5 days a week. I was probably ~25%. So needed to cut again. I'm at 155 now dexa still says I only have 130lbs of lean mass still. That's what I had when I was 145lbs in 2020. So I'm very disappointed.

I'm gonna get down to 150, then try another Bulk. Gonna tweak a couple things this time so hopefully I can get it right. Then try to rinse and repeat. My goal is 175 at 15%. Right now I'm 155 at 15% so 20 lbs would really change things for me in a massive way. Good luck dude.

 

[d33smth]

@aymgoa See this is my biggest fear right here: putting myself through a long bulk and cut, only to come out the same or with less muscle mass. Do you have any idea why you ended up at the same amount of lean mass on a dexa after your 2nd bulk and cut cycle? Did you get stronger at all, and did your lift numbers go up?

 

[aymgoa]

@d33smth That's what I'm trying to figure out on my third bulk. I even tested hormone levels. And they seem good except for my dht is low since I take finasteride to prevent hair loss. So maybe that has something to do with it in my case. Also could be my age or something else about me that makes me a low responder to lifting. It could be a little bit of my programming but I still should have gained muscle doing 12-16 sets per muscles per week.

But after my first year of lifting, my lifts didn't really go up. They did, but only very slightly. Probably because I'm getting better at the movement. I don't feel stronger. So this is why I think you are probably not like me. You have gotten great result on your lifting progress. So keep it up. I think you're gaining muscle but very slowly. Like I said before, keep an eye on your waistline ( around belly button). When my waistline was 30 inches, I was 12%. When it was 33, I was 20%. So if your waist goes up like 3 inches, probably time to cut. But if doesn't go up that much, you are gaining muscle, so keep bulking. Or look at it like every inch your waist goes up, you maybe gain like 3% body fat. Or get a dexa scan now, do a bulk and a cut, then dexa again. Best to compare end of a cut to a cut (or compare end of bulk to a bulk) rather than comparing end of a cut to an end of a bulk. Since water and glycogen will be very different.

Also lifting has improved my life massively not just in fitness but I'm any other ways. So the journey has been worth it even if results aren't near what I had hoped for.

 

[d33smth]

@aymgoa Great response with your experience measuring your waistline. And thank you for that advice about comparing cut to cut or bulk to bulk! I think in the past, I've compared myself at the end of my bulk to myself at the end of a cut, and you're probably right about water and glycogen being different! Thanks again for all this insight!

 

[peipei]

@d33smth Calories too low, you should at least be at around 3000-3200 to bulk

 

[d33smth]

@peipei In my experience, I gained a pound a week at 3000