S&S question. 5 minutes for swings or 1:1 rest?

[lostandfound2000]

At numerous points in Simple and Sinister, it says the goal for the swings is 10 sets in 5 minutes with a 1:1 work to rest ratio. Those things aren't equal.

It takes me 20 seconds to do 10 swings. That takes 200 seconds, if I rest for 20 seconds between sets that's 180 seconds. That's 380 seconds, which is over 6 minutes.

If I want to complete complete all 10 sets in 5 minutes I can only rest about 10 seconds: a 2:1 work to rest ratio.

Which is it? 5 minutes or 1:1 work to rest ratio?

 

[juancarlos]

@lostandfound2000 The time test goal is 5 minutes. Forget 1:1, it is not an exact thing like you noticed. And I don't even recall numerous mentions of 1:1.

 

[alinta]

@lostandfound2000 I was about to ask this exact question a few days ago, but I did some research, and have an answer for you.

First, the book says, "Eventually you will reach the point where the work-to-rest ratio is 1:1, which means you will hammer out 100 swings in five minutes," and, "The 10x10 swings must be done in five minutes."

So, the test is 10x10 swings in five minutes—which is approximately a 1:1 ratio, but that depends. Checking the StrongFirst community forum, it seems like people do 10 swings in 15-20 seconds, and I do them in 17 or 18 seconds, myself.

10x10 means 10 working sets and 9 rest periods, right? (You start the clock right before the first swing of the first set, and stop the clock right after the last swing of the last set.)

For a perfect 1:1 ratio, you would have to do each set in 15.8 seconds, and then rest 15.8 seconds (300 seconds divided by 19 intervals).

If you do each set in 20 seconds, you can afford 11.1 seconds of rest (300 seconds minus 10 * 20 seconds of work divided by 9 rest periods).

You can also think about it this way:

In order to finish 10x10 swings in five minutes, if your swings take between 15-20 seconds, you need to start a new set every 31 seconds. Not every 30 seconds, as people usually say.

Let me show you:

Set
Start time
End time

#1
0:00
0:15 – 0:20

#2
0:31
0:46 – 0:51

#3
1:02
1:17 – 1:22

#4
1:33
1:48 – 1:53

#5
2:04
2:19 – 2:24

#6
2:35
2:50 – 2:55

#7
3:06
3:21 – 3:26

#8
3:37
3:52 – 3:57

#9
4:08
4:23 – 4:28

#10
4:39
4:54 – 4:59

 

[edification]

@lostandfound2000 Yeah, was confused with this too at first. But stopped paying attention on it as started to work. Resting as I feel comfortable, it's usually takes me up to 6 or so minutes to make 10 sets of 10 reps with 2handed swings.

Now working 5 sets of 20reps and 5 minutes it pretty comfortable for this. And I think it's nearly close to 1handed swings: 10 reps per right hand + 10 left + rest.

 

[juancarlos]

@edification Seems like you should have moved up in weight. Why are you doing 20 rep sets instead?

 

[edification]

@juancarlos Mostly because of the time. I don't have it enough to train during long periods have to count every minute. But also preparing for 1handed swings to do them without rest between hands. Not doing 1handed swings yet because still not comfortable with 32kg in 2handed.

 

[juancarlos]

@edification Ok. Just as long as you are aware that longer sets do not equal heavier sets. And that rest makes a difference in the effects you get. Resting between sets is crucial for the antiglycotic part of S&S. But I do understand that if you have very limited time, it is hard to justify resting most of it. And you can get overall progress the way you are doing it.

 

[edification]

@juancarlos Thanks for information, didn't know this.

I have days with enough time either. And these days I usually do my maximum weights with perfect from with enough rest and measuring heart rate between sets.

 

[anonymousgirl26]

@lostandfound2000 How you do the swings is on you. But generally you are going to focus on getting the work time a bit lower without losing power. You can watch a few SFGs do their Simple or Sinister test on YouTube and some do 10 second rest, others do it faster with 15. WHile you are doing the program the main goal is power generation.

 

[dawn16]

@lostandfound2000 Each for 4-6 weeks then change it up. Everything works for 4-6 weeks. Then up have to change it up.

 

[juancarlos]

@dawn16 S&S does work for a longer time too. The point of "Everything works for 4-6 weeks" is that even bad programs work for 4-6 weeks. And from that we can derive that we should do a program for a longer time than that to know if it is a good one, and also that we won't mess up too bad with any program. But it is a simple saying and there definitely are programs out there that are a bad idea.

 

[edification]

@dawn16 Please describe more popular this theory. Or post some links to read. Thanks a lot.

 

[webtest88]

@lostandfound2000 You need to increase the speed of your swings. Actively throw the bell downward (like hiking a football) and explode upwards on the upswing (and stop the bell with your lats) and squeeze those glues when stopping the bell to make sure the back doesn't go into extension. I just did 10 swings of the 24kg for 3 sets of 15 secs of swings 15 secs of rest.

But damn 10 sets would be tough. So I should use a lower weight if I want to pursue this protocol.

 

[juancarlos]

@webtest88 No, you should not do shadow swings in the time test. The 1:1 is not the goal, not the test. You have 30 s per 10 swings and you rest whatever time there is left over. It is not a lot, but it is what it is.