Something is off, but I can't figure it out

[boldpastor]

Hi, I started working out consistently this February. The starting stats were 74kg 185cm 20M. I have previously worked out summers back in high school and had very good results.

I was determined to gain some muscle, and with the previous experience I had I started a PPL workout routine (details below).

There's 2 different variations of PPL, however I will only provide the first since the second swaps between equivalent exercises. If necessary, I will provide the second variation as well. I will also provide weight where relevant (weight will include bar or individual DB unless otherwise stated). I would do Push1-Pull1-Legs1-Rest-Push2-Pull2-Legs2-Rest. However, I add an extra day of rest in-between when needed. I progressively overload by increasing number of reps until a certain threshold, and then increase the weight; however, this may not work sometimes, so I try to tweak the numbers so that the overall volume per exercise increases by 1-4%.

I (21M) am currently eating around 3600kcal/day with around 225g of protein and 360-370g carbs. I drink 2.3L of milk (full fat or semi-skimmed) daily because I can't eat that much and milk I can drink even when I feel full. I now weigh 88.6kg. In the last few months, I've noticed that I am not putting on any muscle (minimal strength increase) and that I'm just getting fat or experiencing water retention. My flexed arm size is smaller than what I achieved in high school with 3 months of training, and the numbers below speak for themselves (I would bench 70 for 5 sets when I was 16). I am struggling to recover, however taking longer breaks or rest days don't help, I still lose strength if I don't train. I sometimes have to decrease volume even though I'm eating so much - while still gaining a good amount of fat. I get at least 9h of sleep daily.

I am trying to keep consistency and just view this as a long journey, but I've been going through some rough times and it's demoralizing to stall for so long. I have friends who started working out recently deadlifting or benching significantly more while not really counting calories or keeping track of progress, and it's frustrating to put in so much effort tracking everything and getting barely maintenance in return. I've been told that I should work more on my shoulders and chest since they are underdeveloped, but they don't really grow even though I work them to the point of several day tiredness or injury. I no longer get soreness, but I feel weak when warming up and can't even lift my arms above my head without noticeable muscle discomfort.

I'm not sure what else I could improve without overcomplicating things or hyper optimizing. I am currently taking an extra rest day between push and pull so that I can allow my shoulders some recovery.

I have done extensive blood tests and everything came back okay. Testosterone is 5.15ng/mL.

My next plan is cutting down over a longer period of time while trying to maintain what I have because I am feeling too heavy to even walk comfortably. I think I should be able to cut to 80-81kg and I'm nervous to see if there's any muscle underneath. I was also going to switch my training to jeff nippard's ppl4x program to see if training differently will improve anything.

This is what I looked like when I started working out in february:

https://imgur.com/NVu7YTr

This is what I look like now:

https://imgur.com/g4F2RKa

https://imgur.com/s7btwLR

There is a bit of pump in the last 2 pictures above. I normally look more skinny fat.

I'm looking for suggestions or changes that I should bring to my training or diet. I want to keep gaining more muscle reliably and without injury so I can start training some calisthenics and more balance-strength oriented exercises. I also feel like some people may say just keep training and don't stress about it, but I'm really feeling like I'm getting nowhere, so I think I'd like to ask for your help and opinions. Sorry for the long post and thanks for your time!

Rest times: 2-3min between sets

Push 1:

Bench press: 50kg-10, 60kg-9, 65kg-7

Incline DB press: 20kg-10, 22kg-10, 24kg-8

Cable crossover: 3 sets x 10 reps (controlled, around 8-9 RPE)

Lateral raise cable: 3 sets 12,11,9 reps (sometimes with DB in the 8-10kg range)

Overhead DB press: 16kg-12, 18kg-10, 20kg-10

Front raise cable: 3 sets x 10 reps (controlled, slow movement)

Rope triceps extension: 3 sets 12,11,9 reps

Bodyweight dips: 3 sets 9,8,8 reps

Pull 1:

Cable lat pulldown: 59kg-10, 66kg-10, 66kg-9

Bent over one arm DB row: 20kg-11, 22kg-10, 22kg-10

Deadlift: 3 sets of 90kg-8

Face pull cable: 3 sets 12,10,11 reps

Upright DB row: 8kg-12, 8kg-12, 10kg-11

Reverse fly machine: 3 sets 12 reps

Barbell standing curl: 30kg-10, 30kg-9, 30kg-7

Rope hammer curls: 3 sets 10 reps

Smith shrugs (excludes weight of bar): 45kg-15, 45kg-15, 55kg-15, 55kg-15, 60kg-13

Legs

Squat: 50kg-10, 50kg-10, 55kg-8

Leg extension machine: 41kg-10, 45kg-10, 50kg-11, 54kg-12

RDL barbell: 60kg-10, 70kg-9, 75kg-10

Lying leg curl machine: 4 sets of 21kg-10 reps

Standing calf raise smith (excludes weight of bar): 40kg-15, 40kg-15, 45kg-15, 45kg-13

Side bend + sit ups: 4 sets of 15 reps each exercise

Cardio:

I am able to run 8-10km with 5:45/km pace unless I'm feeling injured. I also row around 6k in 30min when I prefer it instead. Usually doing cardio once a week since it destroys my knees at current weight.

 

[533th3r]

@boldpastor Your sets are all over the place. Pick one weight for your working sets, and use that weight for all of your sets. The reps will vary every set. At this point you don't do enough EFFECTIVE volume. If your first set leg extensions is 41 x 10 and your last set is 54 x 12 the first 3(or maybe even 4) sets are not close to failure at all. That gives you maybe one good set for that exercise. You have this for almost every single exercise.

So another example is your bench. 50x10 is easy if you can do 60x9 after that. Just pick 60kg from the start and go close to failure. You might get 60 x 10, then 60x8 and 60x7 for example. Next week you try to add a rep to all of the sets. If you manage one extra rep on one of your sets you made progress. Rinse and repeat after that

 

[boldpastor]

@533th3r So just go harder on the sets. I agree with what you’re suggesting, I thought i was starting lower so that i get used to the weight and then progress upward through the sets because I’m scared of putting too much strain on a bad day and injure myself. Would you recommend 2 warmup sets with 60-70% of the weight followed by 2 hard sets to failure?

 

[533th3r]

@boldpastor The warm up sets are just to get some blood flow. For a bench I would warm up like this:
Bar x 15
40kg x 8
50 x 3-4( a so called feeder set)
Then do your working sets. Obviously when you get stronger you'll up your warm up weight as well.

You'll get a good feel for when to put a certain weight on after some time in the gym. You just have to beat the week before.

 

[laurie2777]

@boldpastor Yeah it’s like you’re building up to a 1rm or are about to do a set with a ton or something. For us plebeians typically some stretching a rep or two with the bar and a couple reps at a decent weight relative to what you’ll be repping for the workout is enough. From there you want all your sets to be near failure, like the comment says 50x10 and 60x9 are massively different.

 

[felonna]

@boldpastor Try doing a program with a built in progression, instead of sets that are - as another commenter pointed out - all over the place. That way you'll be able to track increasing strength (not necessarily your 1RM but your 8 or 10 rep max).

 

[boldpastor]

@felonna I could google that, but do you have any recommendations for the programs? I don’t really follow any fitness influencers.

 

[felonna]

@boldpastor I don't follow influencers either, they're all a waste of time.

Learn from someone with a science-based training method.

Here's one as an example, with a spreadsheet that you can enter your weights into.

It's Mike Israetel's program, and his methods are pretty well regarded.

https://liftvault.com/programs/body...week-hypertrophy-workout-routine-spreadsheet/

This website has hundreds of routines,you just need to learn to navigate it.

 

[boldpastor]

@felonna That looks very in depth I look forward to trying it out. Thanks a lot for the info, I really appreciate it!

 

[felonna]

@boldpastor You're welcome! Definitely read Mike Israetel's article linked on the page, it'll really help flesh out your understanding of the training principles in the program

 

[dawn16]

@boldpastor 5/3/1 by Jim W, it's nominally a strength program but he has variations for putting on size as well ...it's one of the simplest but most effective programs for beginner to intermediate lifters imo. It's based on the premise of progressive 4-week cycles, where weeks 1-3 you progressively add weight/volume, and then deload for the 4th week. Then start again on cycle 2, but with slightly higher working weights each cycle. Google 5/3/1 and you'll find it, look for the version tailored to balance size with strength

 

[dawn6580]

@boldpastor

I started working out consistently this February. The starting stats were 74kg 185cm 20M. I have previously worked out summers back in high school and had very good results.

I (21M) am currently eating around 3600kcal/day with around 225g of protein and 360-370g carbs. I drink 2.3L of milk (full fat or semi-skimmed) daily because I can't eat that much and milk I can drink even when I feel full. I now weigh 88.6kg. In the last few months, I've noticed that I am not putting on any muscle (minimal strength increase) and that I'm just getting fat or experiencing water retention. My flexed arm size is smaller than what I achieved in high school with 3 months of training, and the numbers below speak for themselves (I would bench 70 for 5 sets when I was 16). I am struggling to recover, however taking longer breaks or rest days don't help, I still lose strength if I don't train. I sometimes have to decrease volume even though I'm eating so much - while still gaining a good amount of fat. I get at least 9h of sleep daily.

Okay feedback, you put on 14.6 kg that sounds like you've come to the end of a productive (?) bulk. If your strength is waning, and so is your size you may think about programming a deload followed by a routine with more recovery built in, one heavy day per body part.

That's honestly as much as I can advise on. Good Lifting!

Edit, if you had successful summers lifting, think about what that means. Three months on, then rest right? Maybe a thing to investigate, there's a saying (Dan John?), "Success leaves footprints". Maybe two months heavy in the future on a bulk, then two months with more recovery built in on a cut?

 

[dawn6580]

@boldpastor To be honest I have no experience personally with successful bulking. My body doesn't respond well to conventional training. I have learned how to train myself successfully only by seeing how I respond to a training method, over time. Sometimes making the same mistake again, and again. But I logged it, and learned.

So when You say you had success training for particular periods I suspect you have data you may want to consider carefully.

I am hearing you say that despite working for a longer period you are having less success?

Maybe 3 months of light bulking is right for you? Maybe four months? Maybe two months? Ask yourself what has worked in the past, and what is different now. "Success leaves footprints".

 

[jenny5]

@boldpastor Don’t have a fixed number of reps. Use a challenging weight and get at least 6 with good form till failure.