Workout Routine Advice

M

maggiehanley

New member
Intro: Any knowledgeable or educated members willing to provide constructive criticism on my workout routine, Macros, or anything, in general, would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking to gain size mostly, as well as strength, I used to be pretty fat and when I lost the weight I was super skinny and I'm currently trying to change that.

Age: 18
Gender: Male
Height: 6ft 2
Weight: 160 pounds

Current Nutrition:

Calories: 3,350

Protein: 1g Per/Pound

Eating Restrictions: Vegan

Workout Routine

Cardio:

Thursday Nights: 5-a-side soccer game, Ultimate Frisbee game.

Sunday: Hockey game.

Lifts:
EDIT: Usually 6 days on 1 day off, repeat.

Push A:

BB Bench Press (5 x 4-6)

Incline DB Press (3 x 8-10)

Standing DB Shoulder Press (4 x 8-10)

Machine Flys (3 x 8-10)

Front, Side, Bent Over Lateral Raises (3 x 8-10 each)

Tricep Overhead Extension (4 x 10-12)

Tricep Pushdown (4 x 10-12)

Push B:

BB Incline Bench Press (5 x 4-6)

DB Flat Bench Press (3 x 8-10)

Military Press (3 x 6-8)

BB Decline Bench Press (4 x 6-8)

Arnold Press (3 x 6-8)

Incline Skull-Crushers (4 x 10-12)

BB Closegrip Bench Press (4 x 10-12)

Pull A:

Pull-Ups (4 x 6-8)

BB Row (4 x 6-8)

DB Shrugs (4 x 6-8)

Seated Cable Row (4 x 8-10)

Face-Pull (3 x 10-12)

BB Curls (4 x 8-10)

Cable Rope Curls (4 x 10-12)

Pull B:

Pull-Ups (4 x 6-8)

T-Bar Row (4 x 6-8)

Lat Pulldown (4 x 8-10)

Machine Seated Row (4 x 8-10)

Palm-out Curls (4 x 8-10)

Reverse BB Curls (4 x 8-10)

Legs A:

Squat (4 x 6-8)

Leg Press (4 x 8-10)

Hamstring Curls (4 x 10-12)

Machine Calf Raises (4 x 12-15)

Legs B:

Deadlift (4 x 6-8)

Front Squat (4 x 6-8)

Leg Extensions (4 x 10-12)

Bulgarian Split Squat (4 x 8-10)

Machine Calf Raises (4 x 12-15)

If you made it this far thank you for your time!
 
@maggiehanley Dude, by all means... dumb it down. You seem to be an absolute beginner and this routine is tailored for someone who is at least intermediate. Do yourself a favour and start with Greyskull LP (Phrakture's Variant), Starting Strength or Stronglifts or something like that instead of diving into PPL right from the start.
 
@dawn16 The beginner programs for strength are great for getting people started with a simplified program which focuses on the main lifts (bench press, overhead press, deadlift, squat, barbell row) but they lack volume and frequency. You'll get results over the course of a year but the trouble starts once you have to deload as you'll be performing the same volume each workout with weight that your muscles are already used to. You only do bench press, overhead press 3 times in two weeks with a limited amout of volume. It's harder to make progress with OHP so adding extra weight each workout will make you hit a plateau rapidly. They focus too much on squat and lack volume on deadlift.

For those of you who're interested in a 'better' program in terms of more frequency and volume. I would suggest reading A detailed look at why StrongLifts & Starting Strength aren't great beginner programs, and how to fix them - lvysaur's Beginner 4-4-8 Program. You should first learn to perform the main lifts with PROPER FORM by reading the guides on StrongLifts and by searching for instructional videos on youtube. You should also learn that you'll have to apply lineair progressive overload basically adding weight each workout. After you've mastered all the lifts you should definitely switch to Ivysaur's 448.

Ivysaur's 448 focuses more on volume, frequency and DUP(Daily Undulating Periodization) to get better results in less time. Read Two Easy Ways to Make Your Novice Strength Training Program More Effective which talks about periodization and volume. Mike Zourdos talks about DUP in a video for those of you who're interested as you can apply it to any program. Here's his AMA about DUP. Also read The Bogeyman of Training Programs (and why it may be just what you need) with an example of DUP.

With Ivysaur's 448 you'll do bench press and overhead press each workout but with a different volume by alternating between 4x4 and 4x8 as seen here. If you want better results over time you should definitely check this out. I'm currently following his program for more strength. It seems more complicated but all it takes is a bit of calculation to determine the weight.
 
@andrewjrg85 I have two different opinions now, Idk which to follow. I know what progressive overload is and such of course, but now I have a crossroads of continuing my program, starting this Greyskull LP, or doing this Ivysaur (Why is this named after a Pokemon...)
 
@maggiehanley it comes down to goals... Ivysaur's 448 is more set on (chest) aesthetics than all around strength. because of this it's rather push heavy and the arguments are IMHO rather shaky to be honest. why is there any need to hit vertical and horizontal push in the same session but the pulls are still in different sessions? I think this will inevitably lead to muscular dysbalances.

plus I am rather intrigued to know who ivysaur is to write a program? how many clients/people had he run it? we are talking about the same dude that started this thread
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/3rds15/i_can_deadlift_405_with_shit_form_but_only_365
last year.

those three other programs are tried and tested...
 
@dawn16 He just read about DUP (Daily Undulating Periodization) and used Preplin's Table to make the program. Everyone can make a good program if they have this knowledge. Mike Zourdos is an expert on DUP so read his findings first please. Layne Norton talks highly of Mike Zourdos and has a video on DUP. Even Omar Isuf has a video on DUP, strengtheory.com has articles about DUP. Read the articles first please. Ivysaur has some really good arguments. Read Two Easy Ways to Make Your Novice Strength Training Program More Effectiv.

If you would have taken the time to read it, you would have to agree it's a better program than any other beginner's program because BUILDING MUSCLE IS ABOUT VOLUME AND INTENSITY which all the other programs LACK.

This is so disappointing this just feels the same way as arguing about veganism with someone who hasn't got a clue what he's talking about. I've done SL5x5 and have noticed the issues, have you?
 
@andrewjrg85 Those arguments are not really appealing when for example you got two pushing motions per workout and only one pulling. What is the logic behind that?
Plus I am not knocking DUP, I am just convinced that beginner programs have their place exactly because of the simplicity. I also think that it is useless to think about optimal training if there is doubt whether this kid has even set foot in the gym.

All I am saying is that he shouldn't dive into PPL when he should get used to the basics first. Starting Strength (as a german I won't use the abbreviation for obvious reasons), SL and Greyskull will help you do exactly that. They'll focus on form and will let you start with the bare bar to do so. That also will slow down your progress but it will help your form and your cns and body to get used to working out.

Have him do that for 3 months and I don't give a crap whether he keeps doing it or switches to a DUP based regimen after that to optimize gains.

By the way I've done Starting Strength back in the day as a scrawny dude 6'0 and 160lbs and got to a 275lbs DL, 225 Squat and 165 bp in about 6 months. Which was okay for me. Probably not optimal but pleasing. To other people this might be not enough though.
 
@dawn16 You can squat, deadlift and barbell row each workout if you want. Ivysaur has just put his knowledge into a 'better' program in terms of volume and therefore building more muscle for in less time. Strength training takes time because of the high resting periods which is why he limited other lifts. If you have the time and have no trouble with recovery, you could incorporate squats, deadlift and barbell row each workout. This would mean more volume and therefore faster results but it'll just take more time. I said in my previous post that he should start with any beginner program and once he has mastered all the lifts with proper form switch to 448.

I noticed with StrongLifts that I plateaued early on OHP but deloading 10% and then doing 5x5 all over again does not provide new stimulus, your rest periods would be shorter but you should also incoroprate more reps and/or sets. This is another mistake I've made and wasn't aware of, Ivysaur tries to address the problem by adding weight less frequently on OHP. 448 isn't perfect but ,if you know the reasoning behind it, I would recommend it to beginners even if it's more complicated and could use some adjustments.

By explaining all of this I just want to help beginners and warn them because I don't want them to make the same mistakes. Each program will give a beginner great results but there are ways to do even better which is why I try to recommend it just like they do on /r/fitness.
 
@dawn16 In that picture there really isn't a dark blue for "Strength & Size" or "Pure Size", I assume that's the point your making?

In the article, it says that you should have a good mix of both hypertrophy rep ranges, as well as strength rep ranges. I had knowledge of this when building my routine and I thought I covered that well, did I not?
 
@maggiehanley Please answer me one question: Have you already set foot in the gym and even done one workout? If not stop overthinking and start doing isht...

Otherwise you'll have to think about your soccer and hockey games cause cardio may stunt your growth aswell.
 
@dawn16 Yes, I step into the gym almost every single day. I'm not going to stop playing sports "because it may stunt my growth", nor can I believe that 3 physical activities a week would do that in the first place. Especially when I am eating 3,350 calories a day.
 
@dawn16 Also, does anyone have any input on my current bulking macros? I scale EVERYTHING to try and be as accurate as possible, this really is my passion and I am always scared that I'm not doing enough or that I'm doing things wrong, as shown here you guys are saying that I've been training not in the most optimal way (you said to reduce my routine, but how could I possibly hit all the muscles enough won't I be leaving things out?), and that kills me b/c I did so much research to try and make the perfect routine and eat the perfect calorie amount. HELP
 
@maggiehanley As for macros you should calculate your TDEE based on your weight, height, goal and activity level. Your protein intake (1g/pound) is fine and fat should be 10-20% of total daily calories, don't be afraid of carbs. My mealplan as a simple example.

As a beginner it's better to train for strength as you'll be able to lift more weight in a year than on a hypertrophy program like PPL. I've made the mistake of starting with push pull instead of strength, I then switched to SL5x5 and I'm now following Ivysaur's 448. As a beginner you'll make progress faster so utilize it. After you've had a few deloads and aren't progressing as fast anymore you can switch to a hyperthrophy program.
 
@andrewjrg85 Ya I don't care about too many carbs, my TDEE ranges anywhere from 2700-2900 (different sites). This routine would imply that I go to the gym every second day right? Mentally that makes me feel like I'm slacking so hard.
 
@maggiehanley You don't have to follow any advice, you can go to the gym each day of the week with a push pull legs split if you want. You'll build muscle anyway as a beginner if you apply progressive overload. Just don't make the same mistake as I did and think more long-term. After a year of strength training you'll be able to lift heavier (and therefore build more muscle) when you switch to a push pull legs split. Building muscle is about volume and intensity, which means reps, sets and weight. I want to build muscle as fast and efficiently as possible. It's your call. Ask /r/fitness they'll give you the same advice.
 
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