Anti-Glycolytic Training

[cysterinchrist]

It's been a few years since we last had a post about this subject. Has anyone had any success with this type of endurance training?

I'm asking as someone who mainly powerlifts and bodybuilds now, but occasionally dabbles with kettlebells and athletic training, e.g. wrestling and BJJ. Ideally, I'm looking to improve my cardiovascular health and endurance, without sacrificing power output. In the past, I had this issue when I started going on Zone 2 runs... I discovered my sprint times went up, jump height went down, basically everything you don't want as a strength or power athlete.

Tacking on HIIT after some power/speed training seems like a good alternative here, but it takes a big toll on recovery, and thus limits volume with my strength and hypertrophy training.

Anti-glycolytic training, a.k.a. "alactic + aerobic" training, sounds like the holy grail for this. And because of that, it also sounds too good to be true.

I mean, can repeated bouts of explosive exercises, with long enough rest in-between to allow for full recovery, really be as efficient in producing good cardiovascular health and endurance results as LISS cardio? Seems unbelievable to me.

Would love to hear people's experiences, thoughts, and personal anecdotes.

 

[rash123]

@cysterinchrist Al Ciampa, the guy who popularized A+A training has stated that there is no substitute for LISS. However, personally, I have found it to help me tremendously with my physical job.

I feel very good during training and the days after. My muscles have gotten bigger too, even though the reps per set have been low (under 5).

The cons with this type of training is that it is a bit boring, to be perfectly honest. Just standing there in the same spot for 30 minutes... But, that's my problem. It is also something you need to spend many months doing and many times it just feels like you are spinning your wheels. Despite that, I love it.

My experience is with double clean and jerks 24 kilos, recently started with 32s. And Snatches with a 32.

 

[steffserves]

@cysterinchrist It’s important to note that Pavel himself says that AGT is NOT as efficient as steady state cardio for cardiovascular health, nor is it as good as pure power training for power development. The whole idea behind AGT is that it strikes a happy medium that helps people improve in numerous qualities.

 

[windrivereagle]

@cysterinchrist I wrote a blog on this topic recently, it's a little bit more geared around other training protocols (researched kettlebell protocols, repeat sprint ability and strongman training). It also has a bit of a GS spin so it might not be of interest.

https://www.gsscience.com.au/anti-glycolytic-musings-part-1/

 

[sharita3737]

@cysterinchrist

Anti-glycolytic training, a.k.a. "alactic + aerobic" training, sounds like the holy grail for this. And because of that, it also sounds too good to be true.

From my understanding, I believe it is too good to be true.

Lebe Stark did a podcast episode with Dr. Robert Robergs, a professor (PhD) in Exercise Physiology talking specifically about anti-glycotic training:

Specifically, he argues that this is physiologically not possible given what we know about human physiology. They talk about Pavel's latest book AXE and give criticisms on what Pavel claims about the biochemistry in this book with antiglycolytic training.

Pavel/StrongFirst def has been pushing this type of training, but I don't think it's grounded in evidence at all.

 

[windrivereagle]

@sharita3737 I agree, however, if you are on a low carbohydrate diet or ketogenic diet you can down regulate various enzymes associated with glycolysis. But you can't completely remove the system - ATP becoming ADP gives a signal for switching on glycolysis...

 

[sharita3737]

@windrivereagle Great point! But then you would eat a low carb diet and carbs are life LOL

 

[windrivereagle]

@sharita3737 I also forgot to add that it reduces performance in most sports...

 

[wezo777]

@cysterinchrist Josh Bryant has talked about a 2 hr/week threshold of LISS for strength athletes. Going over that could lead to decreases in performance, but up to that level should be perfectly fine. Building to that level should also be done slowly. It might be easy to start with 15’ 4x/week and add 5’ every other week until you’re at 30’ 4x/week.

 

[cysterinchrist]

@wezo777 Josh Bryant spoke about LISS? That's cool, I've never seen that. I've always associated him more with things like hill sprints, sled pushes/pulls, and density training.

Are there any LISS modalities he mentioned as his favorites? I imagine working with big guys like the folks he coaches, it can be difficult to find LISS modalities for them (telling a 300lb bodybuilder to go on easy runs is probably not gonna work, lol).

 

[wezo777]

@cysterinchrist For most of his clients he said it’s either brisk walking or light rucking. He also talks about running reverse linear periodization to build to that volume, like starting with shorter sessions of heavy carries and slowly reducing load and increasing duration.

 

[cysterinchrist]

@wezo777 Interesting, thanks!

 

[larsan]

@cysterinchrist I love it. Easy on the body, gets the heart pumping and spares my knees. Using a single bell C&J for my sessions.

 

[hisprincess710]

@cysterinchrist There is going to be a sacrifice of strength and power if you go for endurance and a sacrifice of endurance if you go for strength and power, you just need to find the perfect balance for you. I purely do kb and bodyweight which has given me a decent baseline of strength and power and a fantastic amount of muscle endurance, which works out for me and my hobbies, which are long distance swimming, hiking, biking, and occasionally bjj.