Efficacy of 2 to 3 month mini bulks?

[fatalfantasy]

I started lifting after hitting a "normal" weight ~3 years ago, after being 100lbs overweight most my adult life. I'm cautious about gaining weight due to my history of obesity, so I've been doing 2 to 3 month periods of gaining 0.5-1.0lb per week followed by 4 to 6 week cuts to lose a portion of that weight (until I have at least the outline of abs). Over the three years I've gained 25lbs with roughly the same body fat %.

My progress in the past year has been very slow, but I've assumed that's due to my age (41) and the normal slow down of progress once some muscle is built. I'm doing a 5/3/1 template, adding weight when I hit 5 reps in the third week, but usually only able to add one rep per 3 week cycle to each lift.

Is my mini-bulk strategy holding me back?

Thanks!

 

[boyboy999]

@fatalfantasy So a weight gaining phase tends to build a bit of momentum as you go. Breaking that momentum every couple of months is not ideal. Also the ratio of time gaining vs losing does matter, and you're basically 2:1, which isn't terrible but also not optimal. More optimal is something like 4:1. So something like gain for 4 months, then have a 4-6 week cut. Or, my personal favorite, slowly gain for 8 months then have a 8 week cut. Especially if you only target .5lb per week, you should be able to go 6-8 months comfortably. I do this in my 40s no problem. You're only 41, it's not like you're 61. You're still young enough to progress well for the next few years.

As another potential option, you could do that same 6-8 month gaining phase and then try to hold in the same general area for 3-4 months and see what happens. You might be able to recomp reasonably well and might be able to skip the cutting phase altogether (or at least minimize it). Or if you just feel terribly opposed to experimenting with a 6-8 month gaining phase you could break it in 2 with a recomp phase in between. So gain for 3-4 months, then recomp for 2-3 months and see how that goes before committing to the second half. Or if even the thought of that scares you, perhaps just rip the bandaid off now and do a good 2-3 month cut until you're lean enough that you can commit to the longer term bulk? There are tons of ways to do this, don't be afraid to experiment and think outside the box.

 

[fatalfantasy]

@boyboy999 Much appreciated, I'll consider trying for a longer bulk phase and steeper cut.

 

[boyboy999]

@fatalfantasy Yep, learning early how to do a slow long bulk is a skill that will benefit you for years to come. The more advanced you get, the more important long slow gaining phases become. The longer and slower the better. And don't be afraid to try to take a phase every here or there where you just spend a few months holding your weight steady. You don't always have to be gaining or losing weight.

 

[johnc101]

@fatalfantasy a lot of this depends on bodyfat percentage and how well you handle training in a deficit. if you're doing this in the 15-25% bodyfat range, tbh i doubt there'll be much difference at all (provided you're able to train well and you don't aggressively diet and tank performance). maybe a couple pounds of muscle a year, but even then - 25lbs gain over three years - that's very good progress, even if that's only 15-20lbs of true muscle. so, if it keeps you comfortable, you're enjoying and consistent with training and you can sustain it, imo it's better than bulking longer for those couple extra lbs and potentially hurting that.

this becomes more of an issue in the lower bodyfat ranges or as you get more advanced and the recovery toll that training takes is much higher. you don't have those extra fat stores to supplement your daily intake, so you really do have to stick to a surplus to make gains. and gains come relatively slow, so you usually have to stick with it for a while if you want to see progress.

if you're at a stage where you're advanced and you're not progressing, yeah bulking for longer might be your best (and sometimes only) option to get that going again. usually, best route is to cut as far as you can in order to get as much runway as you can to grow - but lots of approaches can work well.

 

[fatalfantasy]

@johnc101 Thank you for the info and consideration, I'm guestimating I've been cutting down to 12-14% then bulking to around 20%, but of course that's just guestimating. I'm certainly not advanced in the sense of my 1rm, but I've been consistent for 3 years so I'm probably at the point where gaining muscle is just slower. I will try a longer bulk and see how it goes!

 

[lovethechrist]

@fatalfantasy

Over the three years I've gained 25lbs with roughly the same body fat %.
There's your answer. 2-3 months is fine for a mesocycle, and a mini cut after is fine too - just make sure youre having something like deloads to manage fatigue.

I'm doing a 5/3/1 template
Imho this is a poor template for building muscle, or even strength (sets of 3 can work for strength but isnt that optimal and poor for hypertrophy, and that 1 is just buikding fatigue and I'd wager almost zero gains ). I'd personally suggest upping the rep volume, however if it works for you, by all means continue.

 

[fatalfantasy]

@lovethechrist Thanks, much appreciated! I travel ~5 times per year, so my "deload" is half heartedly fucking around with whatever a hotel gym has for a week during those trips. Seems to work out.

I do BBB (even during cuts, since they are so short) so each lift is getting 5x10 as well. But I'm very open to changing up routines because I've been doing BBB for most of the past year - do you have a specific template/program recommendation?

 

[jidalbc]

@fatalfantasy Check out the Stronger by Science program bundle. It's like $10 for several templates, some strength and some hypertrophy

As to your other question, I like 4 months bulks with 4 week cuts. It's largely a personal thing. I have a really high metabolic adaption and drawing out a bulk longer than that starts to suck. Keeping cuts to 4 weeks also is much easier for me mentally

 

[fatalfantasy]

@jidalbc Thanks!

 

[lovethechrist]

@fatalfantasy I dont personally like or use predesigned programs. I may have templates I use but I modify them for everyone I give them to - so I can't recomend a program really.

My thought process is routed in the rep range I work in. Sets of 1-3 are testing, peaking and competition, they generate little muscle growth and even strength your progress will be limited. You can get stronger with sets of 3, but fatigue will rise very very quickly.

Sets of 4-6 is where I feel you'll gain more strength with manageable rises of fatigue - around 85-92% of your 1rm maybe. (And I don't get my guys to test 1rm unless they're actually competing) - instead I use rpe, rir etc

Sets of 5-10 are the lower end of hypertrophy, almost the in between of strength and hypertrophy. I usually program deadlifts in this range and often back squats, rows and bench too

10-20 the golden zone of muscle size. You can go heavy and still get great volume.

20-30 we begin to enter the endurance end of hypertrophy. Those type 1 dominant, or training for specific sports, may get a lot out of this. Certain muscles I feel like this range - Calves love being trained here as to delts for lat raises.

So I see stuff like 5/3/1 and I ask, what's left on the table. However everyone responds differently so if a certain training method works for you, go get it! But I would say its beneficial to switch it up from time to time. Your body will resist high volume after a while so switching to a low volume/strength plan will help reset that, in a sense.

 

[lepomis]

@lovethechrist Can you please elaborate on your last sentence? That’s really interesting if true

For example, if 5/3/1 has your main work at heavy weights for low reps, and then after you are doing 50 supplemental reps, wouldn’t that be doing both strength and hypertrophy in a single program?

 

[lovethechrist]

@lepomis Your body is a machine at adaption and will get used to a lot of things - we call it plateauing. This can happen to certain exercises, or modalities. For example, you've been doing Hammer curls for a year but your arms have stopped growing as much. So you change the exercise to zottman curls and suddebly you get more growth. Or switching from back squats to front squats.

As you do your training, your body will increasingly get resistant to the volume too. For example, you're training sets of 15-20, and growth slows or stops.
So you switch to sets of 5-10, maybe even 4-6. The heavy work will maintain your muscle, but no longer cause that higher volume stimulation, so that sort of settles down, and you gain strength. After a few months having gained strength, you'll become more sensitive to hypertrophic growth again, and switching the volume back may kick-start more growth, as your body has sort of 'rested' like I said, you body will get resistant to stimulus at some point. If you constantly training for strength, your adaption may also falter. The same can be applied.

However one caveat is that everyone responds differently - for a new gym goer this may take a year. For an advanced lifter it may be a month. Or for some it may not even occur, so the bottom line of 'if it works for you, keep doing it' still applies.

And yes it would be, but while there is a strong crossover between strength and hypertrophy, there is some conflict. High volume hypertrophy does not gain much outright strength. Low volume Strength may not trigger much muscle growth - both will provide some but this approach violates the first principle of training: specificity. Are you training to get stronger or bigger? Combining the suboptimal method of training one for the other with the adaption I mentioned above, one would run a hypertrophy phase, then a strength phase, not both at the same time. High volume creates higher levels of fatigue, which may conflict with your strength.

My problem with 5/3/1 is that if training for strength, the volume is quite low. The set of 5 is effective. Set of 3 is on the cusp, and will get you stronger but it's jumping ahead and fatigue will rise quicker.
My preference would be a phase of hypertrophy then a phase of basic strength. Then, as a competition or test day nears, a tapered approach of triples, doubles and ultimately singles. Again, however, if it works for you, then great, and these programs do work for some, it's just it's an approach I'm not a fan of.

 

[lepomis]

@lovethechrist Thank you I appreciate the write up!

To clarify your last paragraph, 5/3/1 is not just 5 reps 3 reps 1 rep. In the last set, you should actually be getting 10 reps on the 5/5/5 week, 8 reps on the 3/3/3 week, and 5-6 reps on the 5/3/1 week. Confusing I know, but that’s how the program is written.

Then on other cycles, you do something called 5s pro which is 3x5 for the main lift followed by either relatively heavy 5x5, or somewhat lighter 10x5 or 5x10

I think the actual programming is very similar to what you recommended, where one cycle of 5/3/1 is dedicated to more hypertrophy and others are dedicated to simply adding weight to the bar

 

[lovethechrist]

@lepomis Ah, I may have misinterpreted the plan: the only times I've read it, the write up has been pretty unclear. Thanks for the clarification

 

[lepomis]

@lovethechrist Yeah it doesn’t really make sense until you dig into it, the guy who wrote the program doesn’t really lay it out in the most clear way

 

[minoa]

@fatalfantasy Counter question, holding you back from what?

 

[fatalfantasy]

@minoa Making more progress with hypertrophy and strength

 

[minoa]

@fatalfantasy Well yeah continuously bulking and eating a bigger surplus will help you achieve this goal more than what you're doing.