High bar squat more fatiguing to spinal erectors than low bar squat

H

horation

New member
Title pretty much says it all. HBS tax my spinal erectors (mid back mostly) way more than LBS. I would've guessed, since you're more bent over, that LBS would be harder on them. Is it that the higher bar placement increases angular momentum/torque (yk what I mean, english is not my first language) that much or what's the cause?

Edit: I have pretty short femurs so I'm pretty upright during both. A bit more bent over in LBS obviously

HBS:

LBS:
 
@intotheforge Me too . I am 5 9 , I measured my reach and compared it to the reach of whatever division it was in the UFC that most were of a similar height. I have the smallest reach
 
@horation Erectors are isometrically contracting in both situations.

High bar squat, compared to same angle but lower-the torque is higher as the lever length is longer, all other things being equal

Low bar squat, compared to lower angle-the torque is greater, as the lever length is longer, all other things being equal

In the real world case, obviously, "all other things" are NOT equal.

I would venture, in some cases, the additional pressure from trying to maintain vertical with the high bar makes is higher than the "fixed" pressure of having the bar lower, with constant torque. In other cases not.
 
@kukla This is the best explanation yet. Torso angle on a high bar squat is much less forgiving than low bar. If you lean too far forward you’ll fall forward, fail the rep, or do a very shoddy and dangerous good morning. Low bar is much more forgiving in that torso angle is built into the movement and allows higher variation throughout the rep, thus reducing strain on the lower back.
 
@horation depends on your style of squatting more than where you place the bar. if you goodmoring your squat with a high bar, its gonna tax your erectors even more than the low bar. the reason high bar should tax them less is because ot facilitates for a more squatty squat, more quad focused, but you can still squat differently if you try. id need to see you squat to know for sure
 
@imstillstanding your knees start extending first while the bar barely moves up, leaving all the rest of the rep to be mostly hip extension, the hips therefore taking most of the load. another way to put is your hips shoot back/up at the begining of the rep. in a very "squatty squat" your hips are at all points right on top of your feet and below the bar, but its not necessary to be that strict, not even most front squats are that "squatty"
 
@horation Surprising to me. Long femurs here but I have a way to be pretty upright in the HBS.. LBS I'm very bent over in the bottom position. LBS is hands down more taxing for my spinal erectors. HBS feels more taxing for my upper back area similar to be much less so than Front Squats.
 
@hugosilva What exactly do you mean, when you say upper back area? Because I feel HBS mostly in the upper lumbar and thoraccic spine. But its definitely the erectors there.
 
@horation Spinal erectors in the upper thoracic area. Hope I am describing that ok. Once I front squat over 100kg (and am just under 70kg) I start to feel it there. As the loading increases I am more aware of loading there than say my lower back/ lumbar to mid thoracic area, unlike LBS where even at lower weight I am aware of loading up the spinal erectors lower down. At 140kg HBS I don’t feel my lumbar spinal erectors being particular taxed, but there is a feeling on compression.
 
@vinod367 Narrow heel stance. A bit more toe out than I would in LBS. It suits my hip structure and allows me to drop my butt more vertically down towards my heels into the ‘Asian squat’ position. With LBS I have heels further apart with less toe out which I find is best for my balance, but that brings my knees and hips further back and with my long femurs my hip are further back and as a result I’m more bent over. If I did that with HBS I’d be very bent over still and with the barbell higher up I’d be loading my spinal erectors lower down even more for the same weight… on top of that I can LBS more than I HBS in practice.
 
@hugosilva Makes sense. But for my hip anatomy if I go narrow stance, even with toes out I get a tremendous amount of butt wink at the end. The only way is to get my heels elevated a lot, but that kinda creates instability.
 
@vinod367 I’d agree that the optimal stance is somewhat individual. I believe that the conventional advice is to go wide stance with toe out to allow the hips to move freely down but that doesn’t work for me. Must be due to how my hips fit into the socket. When I go wide I get a blocking feeling that just goes away when I move the heels closer together. I have reasonable flexibility in the hamstrings and mobility is fine in the ankle so I only need a weightlifting shoe with a raised heel to make this super comfortable.

There’s possibly something you can find stance wise to make HBS work better. Long femur lifters will just find the squat more awkward than short femur squatters but I don’t think that’s an excuse not to put out some reasonable numbers for a casual lifter. There are Olympic lifters with ridiculous squats who have long femurs.

Once you can find something more optimal it’s like night and day once you get into the groove. The only thing I feel taxing spine wise is really a feeling of compression, but I am almost 50 so maybe my discs aren’t what they used to be. Don’t know what your body weight is but upper thoracic loads for me only really stats to hit differently when I have 140kg. And while i can’t yet front squat that weight if I do isometric holds with 140kg it’s on another level. But my lumbar erectors are just fine.

Deadlifts (conventional) on the other hand are just taxing for the back full stop with long legs. You are just bent over so much
 
@horation You are failing to keep your upper back tight on high bar compared to low bar which is leading you having to compensate more with the lower back.

I'd try a having a narrower hand position. My hands almost touch my shoulders when I do squats. Great for keeping the upper back tight if your wrists and elbows can take it and you have enough shoulder mobility.
 
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