How does losing weight while progressing at the gym actually work?

[dillinger]

38y/o male, 222lbs and recently did a DEXA scan. I want to lose weight, but also gain muscle at the same time if possible—recomposition. Looking at some body recomposition info, I should be eating 200g of protein per day.

Some more info:

• 35.2% body fat
• 1700 calories TDEE, not counting gym time and walking
• I fly a desk for a living, but consistently walk 7000-10,000 steps a day -Gym 3x a week. My (slightly abbreviated) workout last night was this:

1x5 bar weight warmup set squat set 3x8 squat, 65lbs 3x8 bench press, 55lbs 3x8 pec fly machine, 55lbs 3x8 overhead press, bar weight

3 minute rest between each set.

I usually also do RDLs and pull up machine into my workouts, but was short on time last night.

How would someone in my scenario approach weight loss while safely progressing at the gym and building muscle? I haven’t figured out how to eat 200g protein a day in a balanced diet with fruits and veggies, while keeping calories low enough to also be losing weight.

Also, what happens to people who don’t eat enough protein but are going to the gym and progressively adding weight? Wouldn’t muscle just dwindle away while lifting heavier and heavier? This seems like a recipe for disaster. How does anyone actually manage to do this and lose weight safely?

TL;DR: how does losing weight while progressing at the gym actually work? I feel like this is so basic, but I can't be overthinking this.

 

[anniereborn]

@dillinger

1700 calories TDEE, not counting gym time and walking

Then that isn’t your tdee. The T stands for Total so your TDEE should include all activity. How tall are you?

How would someone in my scenario approach weight loss while safely progressing at the gym and building muscle? I haven’t figured out how to eat 200g protein a day in a balanced diet with fruits and veggies, while keeping calories low enough to also be losing weight.

By eating in an appropriate deficit (estimated TDEE -500 calories or so is a decent start) and following a program. You don’t have to eat 200g of protein if that’s difficult. The recommended intake is a range and while higher protein is better during a cut to preserve muscle it doesn’t need to be that high to see results.

 

[dawn16]

@dillinger lifting weights builds muscles, Reducing calories loses fat, Doing this consistently equals good results.

Not meeting nutritional value such as protein will simply make progress slower, how much slower? depends on the person..maybe no reduction at all. 200g seems like overkill.

I recommend you just vaguely track your diet, in terms of macro nutrition at least at the beginning, the stress is probably negating the benefit anyways.

Losing weight is mega simple and virtually self explanatory and living a healthy lifestyle is too..If you overthink it you will probably have burnout and stop..

 

[lanman87]

@dillinger You have to understand that progress encompasses many different things that can change over time as you get more experience.

On a typical beginner strength program for example, your 65 pound squat, would increase 60 pounds in 4 weeks. Did your legs get twice as much muscle? No. It's more like your brain is lazy and only uses the muscle it thinks it has to, and gets better at using the muscle you already have.

Another element is improving technique, which applies to lifters of all levels.

And of course, you add muscle mass that your brain then uses.

To actually add muscle mass, I'd probably say stimulus, or lifting hard enough is #1, and then protein is #2. Also keep in mind that the guidelines for protein, are high enough so that most people would not leave much potential muscle gain on the table, but you are still able to add muscle at lower than recommended amounts. Where it probably gets more important is as you gain more muscle mass.

 

[dreamharp]

@dillinger 1700 calories is a deficit for me at 170 lbs. I would suggest increasing calories to prevent acceleration of muscle loss while trying to lose fat.

FYI, I started at 240Lbs and am currently about 170. What works for me is a calorie target of 8-12 calories per lb of body weight, and a protein target of 0.8+ grams per lb of body weight.

I would also forget about the dexa scans. I don’t believe they provide much valuable data for most people…Unless you’re getting them done for free.

 

[pianoismylife83]

@dreamharp Can’t speak to body comp concerns, but the bone density and visceral fat information is really helpful to have from a health perspective. Especially as we age.

 

[dreamharp]

@pianoismylife83 I don’t think that the dexa scans are consistent and/or accurate enough to use that data reliably. I could be wrong, but from what I’ve heard, that appears to be the case. I’ve never actually had one done personally though.

 

[predrag]

@dillinger

how does losing weight while progressing at the gym actually work?

To a degree. I am n=1. Took most of last year off. Been on an experimental cut since New years. 205 lbs - 192 lbs. Regained all my strength back, and have been setting PRs. Recent bests are in the range of 140/195/285/375 OBSD.

Without getting into training, dial in your protein. Get your .8/lb from food, with whey as a bonus "because".

If you try to get stronger, make a goal of getting stronger, you bet your ass you can get stronger.

55lbs 3x8 overhead press,

Especially since you haven't hit the ceiling of beginner gainz yet.

 

[aloverofrigtheousness]

@dillinger Have you checked the macros and calories on boneless skinless chicken? I can eat between 1200-1500 calories a day and still get 200 grams of protein eating boneless skinless chicken breast and thighs.

 

[dillinger]

@aloverofrigtheousness Word. I don’t mind chicken breast but I also have a house to cook for, so trying to get a little variety in the mix to keep everyone else happy too. Hard to wrap my head around doing it all, ya know? I think just like anything else though, you figure it out and get better as you go along. Thanks for the comment!

 

[dawn16]

@aloverofrigtheousness exactly, and spray it with cheese lol

 

[aranyi_zsolt]

@dillinger

Also, what happens to people who don’t eat enough protein but are going to the gym and progressively adding weight? Wouldn’t muscle just dwindle away while lifting heavier and heavier? This seems like a recipe for disaster. How does anyone actually manage to do this and lose weight safely?

Individual protein requirements vary a lot; the Recommended Dietary Allowance [RDA] for protein of .7g-.8g per 1kg of bodyweight is based on two standard deviations away from the mean (or average) and it was designed that way to statistically to make sure that the number would cover what 97% of the population needs. So the actual average protein requirement is considerably lower than that (and there's also a small possibility that any individual is in that tiny 3% category of people who need more than the RDA amount). Mathematically, this also means that ~97% of the people who are hitting that minimum threshold are actually getting more protein than their bodies really require. Hardly anyone is actually protein deficient in a clinical sense because it's kind of hard to consume less protein than what your body actually requires to function.

So to answer your questions:

what happens to people who don’t eat enough protein but are going to the gym and progressively adding weight?

Someone who is clinically protein deficient is going to struggle to get to the gym and do anything because they'll have serious problems just living day to day even without any gym time.

Wouldn’t muscle just dwindle away while lifting heavier and heavier?

Someone who is protein deficient is going to experience muscle wasting regardless of what kind of gym routine they're doing. The body is going to cannibalize existing muscle tissue to make up for the shortfall of protein and other nutrients.

How does anyone actually manage to do this and lose weight safely?

The "secret" is that protein requirements in most fitness/gym talk discussions are vastly overstated. Actual protein deficiency in Western countries is really rare and the few cases that exist are mostly of elderly people which has to do with age-related conditions like sarcopenia; basically older people require a lot more protein than younger people to maintain their existing muscle mass. So as a person ages the same diet they eat year in and year out that worked fine for them from a protein perspective is going to be less and less sufficient for their protein needs once they start getting into the 60+ range.

If you want to lose weight you have to go into a calorie deficit. It sounds like you've decided you absolutely must hit 200g of protein every day and that's frankly an arbitrary decision on your part, unless you've actually experimented on yourself and kept a detailed log of your protein intake, stool, and daily symptoms and worked yourself down from, say, 250g of protein per day down to 150g over the course of a few months. So I would suggest a more flexible approach that prioritizes the calorie deficit over the 200g number; if you have to choose between the two, hit the deficit at all costs and see how you feel with varying levels of less than 200g protein (and keep records).

If you stay in a calorie deficit while maintaining 100g+ protein intake per day I would bet that you don't lose or cannibalize much or any muscle. Training while dieting will discourage your body from cannibalizing muscle (because it's being used) and your body will tend to prioritize burning fat over muscle because of the workout stimulus. If you stop training and just diet, then your body will be less likely to prioritize fat over muscle at all times as a source of nutrients because the muscle will be "unused."

Sorry for the long answer but hope it helps. You're not overthinking anything, a lot of the conventional wisdom on this question is just either wrong or based on a bunch of misunderstandings about protein requirements.

 

[dillinger]

@aranyi_zsolt I'm feeling a lot more confident now! Thank you so much for the detailed response, and I especially appreciate you breaking down some of the protein myths in such a common-sense, logical way. That stuff seems to be prevalent in my reading, and I figured it couldn't be that complicated.

 

[aranyi_zsolt]

@dillinger You're welcome.

 

[aranyi_zsolt]

@dillinger Circling back to post this excellent video on the question of how much protein do we need to be getting. The key takeaway is that there's no scientific studies showing any benefit to getting more than 0.71-0.82 grams of protein per pound per day.

So in your case, just to maintain your current weight of 222 lbs you're not going to benefit by consuming more than 157-179 grams of protein per day which means if you're going to do a calorie deficit, you'd need less than that range. Hope that helps you figure this out!

 

[predestinedforglory]

@dillinger Good diet, calories and macros.

Then 3x a week lifting on a defined program, not feelings. Lots of great programs which use progressive overload. Starting strength is a great muscle building program.

 

[peachiekeen]

@dillinger Eat for target weight calories, shoot for .75-1g protein per pound ideal weight, don't count exercise calories burned in your calorie intake until you're close to your target. That should get you there.

 

[dillinger]

@peachiekeen Simple and easy to follow. Thanks.

 

[pheadablessed]

@dillinger I recommend watching a "what I eat in a day on a cut". Chris Bumstead is Mr. Olympia. He has these. Eat more lettuce.

 

[zoe_faith]

@dillinger I always had an issue getting fruits and veggies into my diet and leaving enough calories to get enough protein. Over years of trying different things I’ve finally found a smoothie I can make daily that gets me 70g of protein and all of my fruits and veggies as well as healthy fats. I usually sip on this throughout the day in between meals.

Outside of that you need to find a good source of protein for your actual meals, for me I prefer egg whites, 99% lean ground turkey and occasionally 96% lean ground beef. Mix those in with rice, pasta, vegetables whatever.

As far as changing the composition of your body goes your in a great position as a beginner. As long as you are training properly and pushing your muscles to a point that forces them to adapt and recover, you’re going to see results. If I were you I wouldn’t stress too much about the caloric deficit right from the start. Make sure you’re getting enough protein in your diet so your body has something to build muscle with. Once you build a good base then you can start playing with macros and attempting to balance a caloric deficit with an adequate amount of protein.