How to integrate running to strength training? What's your experience with running?

[mjsmom73]

I post this here because I feel I might receive better responses on balancing these two sports: sorry for the long post!

Over the last year, I've been drawn more and more towards running; I don't just want to add running as a form of cardio, I want to improve on it (let's say, 10km @ 43m). That takes 3-4 quality workouts per week. However, as I want to eat the cake and leave it whole, I also want to improve my physique, being stronger and with more muscle mass, and since I love strength training, dropping this training is not an option. Another factor to consider is that I'm a student, and while I'd love to train 5-7 times per week, I feel it will get in the way of my degree (sleeping enough, studying a lot, having some social life) - and that is my top priority.

I thought of 2 full body workouts per week like so: Workout A will consist of Horizontal push, H. pull, Quad compounds for 4 sets, with delt/bicep/abs work; Workout B consists of the antagonist muscles; combined with 3-4 running workouts (even lifting on the same day): even if slow and not optimal, is it possible to see decent progress?

Do some of you have any tips, or might share your experience with combining sports and your life?

Stats: 23M, 70kg. Weighted pull up: 6x20kg; weighted dips: 4x35kg; squats: 6x90kg; running: 10km @ 46:41, 2km @ 7:50

TL;DR: What are your experiences and thoughts about combining strength and running training, while also having 1-3 rest days?

 

[magdaleen]

@mjsmom73 Have a look at Tactical Barbell. It is exactly about that.

I use it to combine strength training or hypertrophy training with cardio and conditioning. For cardio I prefer rucking and cycling. It has worked very well so far.

 

[jacobian]

@mjsmom73 Start your mesocycle with more running and end it with very little.

Unless you have a race you want to train for, you will make gains and run faster by doing this.

Mileage over the week is just as important as trying to get a long run in.

I would do 20 miles in the start of the mesocycle and get down to 8 in the last week. You should have such intense days at the end of the mesocycle for leg workouts that 4 short 2 mile runs during the week is enough.

My overall thoughts is they are limiting each other in potential. Like you can be strong and have a great 10k, but you're not going to be jacked and still running long distances throughout the week. You also probably won't be in the 1,000 lbs club and able to get sub 2 hour half marathon. You're body will be trying to adjust to both, not wanting to put on size to ensure you have more endurance in your muscles but also trying to gain strength but a true 10/10 lifting session isn't going to allow your runs to be superb as it will limit your cardiovascular potential.

 

[dawn16]

@mjsmom73 I gained some while running 50 miles per week marathon training. But it was rough. I always ran easy after upper body workouts and trained legs on the same day as hard and/or long runs, either immediately following or at night.

 

[hilbrand]

@mjsmom73 In my experience you can do zone 2 running after working out legs, it's not that bad.

 

[notsure17]

@mjsmom73 It sounds like you're really complicating things for yourself.

I got into running a couple years ago, and run a mix of 10k's and half marathons. I didn't change my body building routine at all when I added my running workouts, I just cut out the other cardio work I was already doing. Why not just do both instead of trying to come up with some hyperspecialized system?

I haven't seen any negative impacts on my lifting, if anything, it's significantly improved my physique.

 

[hone]

@mjsmom73 Day 1 easy run + chest

Day 2 run - speed intervals

Day 3 easy run + back

Day 4 legs

Day 5 easy run + shoulders and arms

Day 6 long run

Day 7 - easy run + lagging body parts or full rest, or any combo you like.

 

[jolual789]

@mjsmom73 Are you training for a race or are you running and have a general goal about target speed? If it's the former, you'll have to prioritize running. That is to say, some weeks you'll think, "Man... if I do exercise A today, I know I won't have the energy for B tomorrow." If you're just doing it to have fun running, just do it. It's not that serious. I might not run the day before legs or do a hill workout the day after, but my experience has always been that, once you get used to it, lifting doesn't have that much effect on running unless you're trying to be competitive in running

 

[kartthik]

@mjsmom73 I am 23 and have been strength training for 3+ years and recently started running 8 months ago, doing a degree, similar scenario to you. I have gone from 30 min 5k to 22 mins in 8 months and my 10k has gone from 54 to 47 mins whilst still gaining strength and mass following this program:

Monday : Push

Tuesday : AM legs, PM easy run

Wednesday : Pull

Thursday : Athletics Track session with Uni

Friday : Rest / legs or active recovery and stretching

Saturday : 5k Parkrun

Sunday : Long run slow 20k+

I will run a half marathon in 1:40 march next year following this program.

The key for me for not losing strength was having 3-5 min rest between sets, doing 2 sets of each exercise with a weight you can do between 3-7 reps with,1 rep in reserve. You are already training endurance so why do it in the gym as well?

If you want more full days of rest sometimes I do one of my upper body days at the end of the week instead alongside one of the runs which also works well!

I also periodise my training so when I am not in a 12 week race training plan I increase volume of strength training, and when I am I often do an extra run in place for one of my strength days.

This personally works for me, but it took lots of experimenting with my program before I landed on this. Try and find out what your body/recovery responds best to

 

[arunnihar]

@mjsmom73 Upper + Running combines absolutely no problem at all as to two have minimal overlap.

The issue is legs/lower.

Personally I run 3x a week and do 2x Upper workouts and 1x Legs workout a week. Loads of guys on bro splits just do legs once a week so that's not a problem if you go hard and Upper twice a week is fine. Your running can slot in on any of the 6 days in the week you haven't done legs.

Also worth factoring in that despite what bodybuilders who lack the mental fortitude to do cardio think running/cycling will both significantly increase the muscle mass on your legs especially if you're genetically prone to leg muscle development (see the countless football/soccer players/cyclists with big legs even in the 90s and earlier when none of them did any gym work). Obviously your legs won't be the size of steroid using IFBB pro's but compared to good naturals it will be solid progress.

 

[junior59]

@arunnihar Former long-distance runner turned lifter + science nerd checking in here.

It's not quite as simple as you've outlined. I do agree there's a certain anti-cardio sentiment that is somewhat common among bodybuilders (cardio is hard and uncomfortable) but the literature does actually show some some detrimental effect for cardio.

One example meta-analysis (I'm sure there are others you can reference) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22002517/

> For moderator variables, resistance training concurrently with running, but not cycling, resulted in significant decrements in both hypertrophy and strength

In short, the "cardio kills gains" meme does have some scientific merit.

In practical terms, if your goal is to just do both for the sake of doing it, you'll be fine, but if you want to make maximum progress, you may need to be smarter about your programming or prioritize one at a time across multiple mesocycles.

Alex Viada is a fairly popular resource in this space who does both marathon running as well as powerlifting (which are basically the 2 extremes of strength and endurance athletics)- he has a book called Hybrid Athlete that may interest you or OP. The key takeaway I found from it was that you ideally want each type of training to be minimum effective dose, meaning you do some steady state cardio (but aren't doing all-out hill sprints for example) and on your strength days, you aren't taking every set completely to failure. Again at end of the day it comes down to your own goals. If you're happy just getting a bit of running in and a bit of lifting in, then the nuances don't matter as much.

 

[dawn16]

@mjsmom73 If you do running, make sure you don't run the day before or after a heavy leg day. You could try to run immediately after a leg session, but you'll feel it the next day.

If i tried to run after a leg day, i would be sluggish and in a ton of pain. Before, and my leg press would suffer. However, if you build a sufficient base, you could in theory just taper before and after leg day, and you'll be fine.

Personally, i prefer cycling because there's less impact. Even after an arm day, for example, my shoulders would hurt like hell after a mile due to arm movement and pounding the pavement. You don't have the constant arm and torso gyration while cycling.

 

[lean_on_jesus]

@dawn16 I feel this, I try to run once a week on Monday and Tuesdays I do a push day, Wednesday I do legs, Thursday I bike, Friday I do a pull day and Saturday I bike, and Sunday I do full body. I used to run on Tuesdays but I agree my shoulders and arms would get sore mid run. But biking even after legs are still sore but the low impact movement felt like more of an active recovery. Plus on Thursday after leg day I would only bike 20 miles while on weekends is when I do 50+ miles

 

[worldwidesadie]

@mjsmom73 Unless you’re trying to be an actual bodybuilder who competes, running won’t affect your gains/recovery.

I do a PPLPPLR + running. Currently trying to increase my 1 mile pace. I begin every workout with a 1 mile hard run. (7:30-7:45/mile pace.)

I end every workout with a 1-2 mile run at a slower pace, usually around 8:30-9:00/mile.

On Wednesday (my first leg day) I only do the 1 mile run at the start of my lift. I end my workout with an easy 1-2 miles on a bike.

Thursdays are not fun. The 1 mile hard run is slowed down by about 30 seconds. Legs are struggling but I like training myself to run on wobbly/weak legs. Doing this will help me with the end of my long runs (I want to run a marathon in 2024).

Saturday is my second leg day. I don’t even go to the gym. Saturdays for me right now are a 5k at race pace, 1 mile of sprint work around a track, then I push/pull a weighted sled + flip a tire until I literally can’t anymore.

This hasn’t always been my routine, but I have always ran and worked out 6 days a week. I’ve essentially had a complete body recomp and improved my mile time by over a minute in the last 6-8 months. 5k time has improved by almost 4 minutes

 

[dawn16]

@mjsmom73 Tactical barbell is your answer.

 

[kay19]

@mjsmom73 GVS is probably the man for this and has covered it many times on his channel.

 

[mjsmom73]

@kay19 I didn't see much on running from him now - do you know some videos of his, where he talks about it?

 

[kay19]

@mjsmom73 Idk just search GVS running and hope for the best