I guess it's time to bulk up?

[zemastruve]

Edit: I'll be postponing this bulking attempt for the meantime. I think I have to lose more body fat first and target to reach normal BMI. I don't have the capability right now to accurately measure my current body fat percentage so it's not very conclusive whether it's the right time to enter lean bulking or not.

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Okay so I'm planning to enter lean bulking starting tomorrow. It's been months that I'm just not losing any more weight now at 81-82kg (at 178cm height). It's been heavy on my mental health trying to figure out what to do next after more than 1 year of regular lifting and calorie deficit resulting in losing 15kg and building my strength. I've gained some muscle but not a lot since my focus was to really lower down my weight to 75kg. And now i want to gain more muscle mass. I am not sure about my body fat percentage, but i bought a smart scale with the "ability to measure body composition through an app" and it says 24%. Doing some quick searches and questions to chatgpt, they say a lower body fat percentage is more preferable before starting a lean bulk. Note that I'm still overweight, at 25.9 BMI. I'm not really sure what to do. I'm scared of gaining weight and seeing numbers go up on the scale makes me uncomfortable, making me think I'll just get fat again. But i guess I just have to do it to try it and just learn from it, i guess. Here's my game plan, please feel free to critique. I'm really new to this so expert advice is much much much appreciated.

Current details about my body and routine:
82kg BW (overweight at 25.9 BMI)
178cm height
26 M
24% body fat (not sure)
Lifting 5 times a week (2hrs/day after work) using a personalized program: M-Chest triceps, T-Back biceps (Lats focus), W-Legs, Th-Shoulders triceps, F-Back biceps (thickness focus)
Daily cal intake at roughly at 2200-2400kcal with protein intake at 170-180g
Supplements are whey protein and creatine monohydrate
TDEE is 2648 (calculator . net) but seems lower in actual (maybe 2400 which is my current intake since I'm on a weight plateau now for 2 months after increasing from 1800 - i got headaches at 1800 intake lol so i tried increasing it to 2000 and 2200 eventually to get rid of the headaches)

Current PRs on heavy exercises:
DB bench press - 27.5kg per arm x 4 sets 5-8 reps
BB bench press - 55kg total x 3 sets 6-8 reps
Triceps pushdown - 125lbs x 4 sets 7-12 reps
Ez bar bicep curl - 20kg excl bar x 4 sets 6-10 reps
Lat pulldown - 110lbs x 4 sets 8-12 reps
BB rows - 40kg exc bar on smith mc x 3 sets 8-12 reps
DB Shoulder press - 20kg per arm x 4 sets 8-12 reps
BB Squats - 80kg x 3 sets 4-8 reps
Leg press - 150kg x 3 sets 4-6 reps
Hip thrusts - 90kg x 3 sets 8-12 reps
SLDL - 80kg x 3 sets 6-8 reps

Lean bulking plan:
Gain weight up to 90kg max in 18 weeks (gain 450g per week)
Increase my calorie intake to 2700 by adding carbs and maintain protein intake rate at 170-180g
Start doing bro split (M-Chest, T-Back, W-Legs, Th-Shoulders, F-Arms) and progressive overload
Maintain supplements of whey and creatine
Learn from the process along the way

Thank you!

 

[clintpj]

@zemastruve First things first: I wouldn't rely on smart scales to accurately determine your body fat percentage, because those are WILDLY inaccurate.

Next, it's generally not recommended to go on a bulk beyond 16-20% body fat percentage.

Bulking comes with inevitable fat gain regardless of your training and diet strategy, and by going on a bulk at a higher body fat percentage, you won't be able to be in a gaining phase for very long until you'd need to go back to a fat loss phase.

Given your stats I'm estimating your TDEE is around 2,500 calories, so if you're averaging ~2,300 calories a day then you're on a very very small deficit. Depending on how accurate your logging is, there's a very high chance you're not actually in much of a deficit (if any) at all, which is probably why you've been plateauing for months.

At this rate if you actually want to lose weight further, you'll need to:

a.) cut calories further,
b.) increase your activity, or
c.) both.

I suggest aiming for 1800 to 2000 cals tops per day, then increasing your daily activity — if you can aim for a minimum of 8000 steps a day (ideally 10k to 12k), that would go a long way.

But if you want to go on a bulk then that's your choice too, just be prepared to handle the additional fat gain.

Good luck!

 

[matthiass]

@clintpj Odd, someone downvoted you, but I 100% agree with everything you said here. Pretty spot on advice.

 

[clintpj]

@matthiass Appreciate it /@matthiass, not too fussed about the downvotes but appreciate the vote of confidence!

 

[zemastruve]

@clintpj Thank you for this! I agree, I'm really hesitant on entering bulking because of the inevitable fat gain. I guess I'll have to go down to 1800 calories again to further cut and add cardio to my routine. But how long should I do it? I don't have the capability to know accurately what my body fat percentage is.

 

[clintpj]

@zemastruve My preferred approach with myself and my clients is to spend anywhere between 6-12 weeks in a deficit then taking a diet break for anywhere between 2-8 weeks after.

Play with the durations as you see fit.

I like this approach because from experience, most people won’t do well with fat loss phases longer than that. Aside from the fact that being in a deficit mentality is fatiguing AF, focus also becomes an issue because there's no real end within sight.

Having a certain time limit introduces some urgency and helps keep you more focused, so it becomes less tempting to cheat on your diet, plus the diet break gives you practice with maintenance (which is a completely different skillset entirely).

As for how long to cut, you rinse and repeat the above process until you get to your desired level of leanness, probably somewhere between 10-14% — and since smart scales aren't accurate, you can just use this as a reference to see what you'll probably look like at those percentages.

Hope that helps!

 

[zemastruve]

@clintpj Thank you sir! These are very helpful insights! My plan for now is to lose more as much as possible within 12-16 weeks by entering the more aggressive deficit again at 1800cals per day and observing the changes along the way.

I'm just a bit worried about appearing skinny though. I know I don't have a good amount of muscle mass yet, especially in my arms and shoulders. I know I should focus on progressive overload to still somehow induce muscle gain, but I expect myself to be weaker at 1800cal/day. What should I do?

 

[clintpj]

@zemastruve Honestly, there's really not much you can do about it.

You can aim for a slower cut (roughly ~0.4 to 0.6% of your bodyweight per week) to maximize the likelihood of building muscle mass while on a deficit. But at the end of the day, gaining some muscle on a deficit is just a best case scenario since muscle building is most efficient when you're on a surplus.

My advice is to just accept that you're probably going to be skinnier than you'd like to be at the end of your first cut and and just get it over with as soon as possible.

It's only a temporary phase, and you're not going to live there anyway since the next phase will be focused on muscle gain.

If you do that right (ie. spend at least 5 months on a surplus while training hard and keeping your rate of weight gain under control) then you'll look undeniably better after the second cut when you strip away the fat and reveal the new muscle you built.

 

[gustavowoltmann]

@zemastruve 24% is still too high in my opinion and could be highly inaccurate. And with that bodyweight and bmi, my estimate is you still have fat/adipose tissues that you can lose by doing small adjustments on your diet and training split down the road. Losing 15kg is already an accomplishment. Personally, I would focus on maintaining-to-pushing my lifts and hit the most minimal-but-sustainable macros and with good protein in it. As you lean down, the remaining fat gets more and more challenging to burn so shifting your strategy to a sustainable one will help you reach cutting down the stubborn areas. Move to lean bulk when your strength is super stable and you already know/reached a good body fat level of 15% to less than 20.

 

[zemastruve]

@gustavowoltmann Noted on this! Will cut further to a lower body fat percentage. Thank you!

 

[lewisr]

@zemastruve What’s your body type? Mostly kasi sa atin di inaalam ang body type. There are body types so you have to uderstand that as well para di masayang oras mo.

 

[lewisr]

Uy may nag downvote? Haha di yata alam kung ano ibig sabihin ng body type.

Kung di nyo po alam google nyo nlng po. Wag mag downvote agad. Or kung tamad kayo mag check…

Okay.. Mesomorph, ectomorph, endomorph. These are the body types ng mga tao. Di porket 25 ang bmi mataba na. That’s an endomorph type of body. Meaning bigboned. In fact these days di lng bmi yung pinagbbasehan. Waist to hip ratio na din.

 

[zemastruve]

@lewisr Endomorph here. Yes overweight pa ako sa BMI pero sabi naman ng mga tao hindi na ako matabang tingnan

 

[lewisr]

@zemastruve My son is also endomorph. 5’10 bmi 24. Pro gulat yung iba na 75 kg sya pro di mataba. Yung kasama nya sa volleyball 75kg din pro anlaki ng tyan.

Ectomorph kasi so yun kaya mataba kasi payat yung body type. You can check the waist to hip ratio and what it’s all about. Di lng yan sa bmi. Lalo na endomorph ka.

 

[zemastruve]

@lewisr Oh so halos same lang kami ng son niyo. Same height kami, 7kg difference lang which i think is not a very large difference.

Kakameasure ko lang, 0.85 yung waist to hip ratio ko

 

[lewisr]

@zemastruve That’s optimal ratio so that’s good. Bumili kami ng smart scale para mamonitor namin yung body fat % din namin. Hehe

 

[lewisr]

@zemastruve And ohh yes so wag na masyado maglose ng weight kasi baka nasa minimum or ideal na body fat % ka na din.

 

[zemastruve]

@lewisr I guess I'll have to lose more na muna, at least makapasok muna sa normal BMI bago mag-attempt na mag bulk. For now targetin ko na muna mag 75kg asap and then dun na ako magsstart magbulk. Thanks for the insights!

 

[lewisr]

@zemastruve I recon that’s your normal bmi already. But it’s up to you since you will eventually bulk up. Good luck OP. Baka sa summer six pack ka na. Hehe