Please critique my programme: moving from the RR to SM's PPL

[reallylongnickname]

Hi I'm looking for feedback on my take on SM's PPL programme.

I'm 35yo male, 5'10.

I've been doing RR for 10 months but am moving on as the only way I was gaining was by doing 5 sets of everything and this made the workout 2–2.5 hours long which was proving mentally unsustainable.

My goals are simple: to be super good at pull ups and L sits, and to be able to do a handstand push up.

My questions:

1. My understanding is that PPL allows you to do some isolation exercises, however, should I replace tricep extensions / bicep curls with higher rep PB dips / chin ups (unweighted) to get more weekly compound volume?
2. Are L sits ok to include as a core exercise? As its a goal of mine I wanted to make sure I had a decent amount of weekly volume, however, would it be better to just translate the RR core triplet across the days? I tried to add hanging leg raises but I can't really get a good ROM due to having a low pull up bar.
3. When I was training the RR (m/w/f) I'd run 5k, do my skills and a bit of extra oblique work (I enjoy it) on my off days (t/t/s). Any thoughts on when's best to incorporate the running with PPL? In the evening? Or just do 1x 10k and one 5k instead of 3 5k?
4. Any other comments?

Cheers

THE ROUTINE

Push (Monday/Thursday)

• 5 x 5–8 HSPU (progression)
• 5 x 5–12 PPPU
• 5 x 5–8 Tricep Extension (or would PB dips be better?)
• 3 x Max Reps Pull Up (unweighted)
• 5 x 6-8s L Sit (Sets and time to adapt as per the Prilepin Chart)

Pull (Tuesday/Friday)

• 5 x 5–8 Weighted Pull-up
• 5 x 5–12 Weighted Inverted Row
• 5 x 5–8 Bicep curl (or would chin ups be better?)
• 1 x Max Reps Pull Up (unweighted)
• 3 x 5-8 Ab Roll Out
• Skill: Hand Stand 3 x 60s of attempts

Legs (Wednesday/Saturday)

• 5 x 5-8 Shrimp or Pistol Squad
• 5 x 5-8 Banded leg raise
• 5 x 8-15 RDL (unweighted, more for mobility than anything)
• 3 x Max Reps Pull Ups (unweighted)
• 5 x 6-8s L Sit (Sets and time to adapt as per the Prilepin Chart)

 

[kristianzhe]

@reallylongnickname I would suggest doing Skill work like Handstands before your strength work. As its not very taxing you can do it before every workout.

Currently you are doing Pullups in every workout 6x a week which is way too much, doing it only in the PULL session will give much more progress. Otherwise there is no possibilities for your muscles to recover

 

[reallylongnickname]

@kristianzhe Thanks for your reply. In terms of pull up volume, this is what was prescribed in SM's PPL from the side bar, but maybe that's assuming that pull ups aren't my primary pulling goal?

 

[chychy]

@reallylongnickname Give it a try and see how it goes. If you go a week or two and feel like your shoulders are all beat up without making any progress, then dial back the volume.

There are a lot of general guidelines in fitness, but very few of them are hard and fast rules. In general, smaller muscles recover faster than big ones, so it might be possible to press 5-6 days a week while most people will regret trying to squat or deadlift more than 2-3 days...

... unless you're the guy over in weightroom who decided to deadlift 600+ every day for a few straight weeks and pushed his deadlift max up by something like 50lbs. Or the dude who fixed a back injury by squatting every day.

The 'rules' aren't universal. The classic russian fighter program for pull ups is 5 days a week. 6 days a week is certainly possible, although all those 'max reps' sets might be an issue, assuming that means going all the way to failure. That can be a lot tougher to recover from compared to leaving one or two reps in the tank.

 

[reallylongnickname]

@chychy This is good. I’ve been doing RR with sets of 5 rather than 3 anyway so I’m quite used to the volume. I’ll run it and see how it goes. Doubtless will need tweaking here and there.

 

[sister_diane]

@reallylongnickname Okay, first of all, I have no idea who or what SM is, beside sadomasochism, but I’m guessing that’s not what you mean here. Secondly, your routine seems mostly fine, but I have some notes:

• 5 sets per exercise might be a bit much if you’re doing PPL. Maybe not though, could be that you have very decent muscle endurance. But for me it would be too much.
• Doing max reps on pull-ups every day is pretty ridiculous. When are you supposed to recover?
• Tricep extensions seem fine. The PB dips works a lot of the same muscles that you’ve already just focused on.
• L-sits at the end of your session are not a bad idea, but if you’re like me then your support hold is already toast. Especially the serratus has had lots of work already and might be fatigued. Even more so if you did dips instead of tricep extensions.
• Bicep curl is great, or you could do pelican curl eccentrics. Doing chin-ups instead will probably not target your biceps enough, as I suspect your back will give out first, being already pretty fatigued.
• As the other comment said, skills are better done when fresh.

 

[reallylongnickname]

@sister_diane Thanks. So the SM PPL is just one of the programmes listed in the menu, the format of which I’ve used as the basis for this, hence the large amount of pull ups.

I’ve been doing RR with sets of 5 rather than 3 so I’m quite used to the volume.

The pull ups may be too much, however I’m doing them unweighted and not going to failure. Would leave 1 or maybe 2 in the tank.

Generally this is all helpful and I’m going to refer back as I fine tune it.

 

[sister_diane]

@reallylongnickname Ah, right. Thanks for clarifying. I read max reps as going to failure, which definitely is not recommended to do daily. But if it’s just to get a little extra volume in, then it’s probably fine.

Concerning the 5 sets, you are right now doing 5 sets per exercise, but per training day it’s a lot fewer sets per muscle group. So just take that into account. If you feel too fatigued already when starting your last exercise, you might have done too much volume. It’s very easy to scale that down to 3 or 4 sets if necessary, so you’ll just have to see if you have to or not.

Otherwise, pretty decent routine I suppose.

 

[reallylongnickname]

@sister_diane Ok cool, cheers. I think this week will be lots of feeling my way through it and reading the comments here to arrive at a sustainable programme. I loved RR but was just time to change.

 

[sister_diane]

@reallylongnickname Yeah, I stepped off the RR a long time ago. I just create my own full body routines with the exercises that I like/want to get better at. Sometimes I plan on doing XYZ, then when I get to Z I find myself completely drained already, so I either just scrap Z the next session or I do fewer sets of X and Y so I have more energy left for Z.

 

[reallylongnickname]

@sister_diane Sounds good

 

[biggums]

@reallylongnickname New to this sub.. this is like another language

 

[reallylongnickname]

@biggums Lol innit

 

[jermyn]

@reallylongnickname I'd suggest using an Upper Lower split instead. PPL really doesn't have much benefit over PPL and it's less time efficient and gives less rest days. If you use antagonistic pairs, you could pair up:

HSPU and Pull Ups

PPPU and Rows

Triceps & Curls if you want them

and you have an Upper Body day and have opened up two rest days where you can fit in the running. You'll probably recover better from that.

 

[reallylongnickname]

@jermyn Thanks son. Do you mean PPL doesn’t have any benefit over upper/lower? Also would you programme it like: upper, lower, rest, upper, lower, rest rest OR upper, lower, upper, lower, upper, lower, rest? And do you do those pairs on the same days or split them? For example would one upper day be 5 x HSPU and Pull up and the next upper day be 5 x pppu and row?

 

[jermyn]

@reallylongnickname

Do you mean PPL doesn’t have any benefit over upper/lower?

In terms of time and recovery days, no. I can't think of anything objectively better about PPL and can think of a lot of things objectively worse.

Also would you programme it like: upper, lower, rest, upper, lower, rest rest

Yes or with longer interval if you find recovery is an issue. Like Upper Rest Lower Rest Rest Rest Repeat.

And do you do those pairs on the same days or split them

I would do them all. But you could alternate too. Like two one day and the other two the other day. Especially if recovery is an issue.

 

[reallylongnickname]

@jermyn Ok I think I understand, thanks. I’m going to see how it goes, it may be upper lower is a better fit

 

[alsbaie]

@jermyn A little late on this, but wouldn’t this be less volume than the RR? Just two upper and two lower workouts per week?

 

[jermyn]

@alsbaie Yes but that's fine. A lot of people will gain on less volume and many will plateau less when they aren't training so frequently. I think three times a week may be a bit much for many people.

 

[alsbaie]

@jermyn Ok thanks