Q: Protein Intake while cutting as a vegan

[audreykate]

Before adopting veganism into my life, I had no problem consuming less than 100 grams of carbs and 200-300grams of protein. Yes, now that I think about it it’s quite disgusting.

Anyway, I’m 5.10 and currently at 154lb with less than 10% body fat. I am trying to cut down even more to get ready for the summer. I’m so used to having my protein intake 1.0-1.2x lb but now with Plant-based diet, it ain’t going to work.

My current macro is at 1700-1600 depending on my daily activity level.
What would be the ideal macro ratio to retain as much muscle mass as possible while on deficit?

 

[tork1369]

@audreykate Seitan, meatless grounds, tofu, pea protein powder. All are very high protein with super low fat/carbs.

 

[dawn16]

@audreykate You really don’t need that much protein. If you’re worried about it, then consume plenty of legumes.

Greens and beans/legumes have the highest protein per calories. Greens range around 33% protein by calories, some as high as 40%. Beans and legumes sometimes have amino acids greens are lower in.

Most beans and legumes are low in fat, with a few exceptions like soy and peanuts.

and need a high protein, low carb, low fat diet.

No you do not need it unless you're starving yourself to rid of fat. People in the sport/exercise world have been chanting protein so long, it has become a religion.

Around 80% of muscle is water. Even if the rest were pure protein (it's not), let's do a calculation for fun. Let's say you wanted to add 50lbs of muscle in one year (impossible without steroids, beginner gains is closer to 15-20 with hard work), how much protein would you need to take in to create it?

50lb-muscle x 1/5 protein/lb-muscle x (16 oz/lb x 28.4 grams/oz) = 4,544 grams extra protein in ONE YEAR.

Now, how much is that per day?

4,544 grams/year x 1/365 days per year = 12.5 grams per day.

Even if you doubled that for fudge factor, that's 25 grams on top of RDA for a 90kg man of around 70 grams per day. That RDA is already DOUBLED over minimum for fudge factor.

So the realistic minimum for that unrealistic goal is 47.5 gr/day and 95 gr/day with a wide margin of fudge.

Despite all the funding in the world, studies by sport authorities haven't shown irl benefit for anything past 1-1.6gr/kg bodyweight and that decreases quickly as the athlete's training age progresses. (The upper limit is mostly beginner gains athletes and it's generally acknowledged that phase stops after 18 months).

• https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
  
  Insulin is the most anabolic hormone naturally produced by the body.
  
  Generally, by pursuing high-protein, all that happens is that the kidneys work harder to flush the nitrogen of the protein out and convert the rest of the molecules into carbs anyway.
  
  The general limit a body can use post-workout all at once is around 20grams protein.

Source

 

[finian]

@dawn16 This is really interesting, thank you

 

[slaphappie]

@dawn16 I really want to ask whether it is a US wierd unit thing. Most places I see for normal/ non athletic folks the recommendation is ~1g of protein per kg. Though when I see similar blogs from the US the number becomes 0.8 g /lb which still over estimates the kg amount by a fair 30-40%

 

[carriesatousa]

@slaphappie 0.8g/lb is for athletic people. And it's a "to be safe" number.

 

[audreykate]

@dawn16

I'm not fully vegan... so maybe I'm not as qualified to post here, but I eat 145 g of protein a day and I eat less than a chicken breast a day. The remainder of my protein comes from beans (they are super healthy and so high in protein!) and tofu. I rarely have to use protein powder to hit macros.

Interesting. So how does protein intake differ when you are at your maintenance or while on deficit?
You know how we are generally told that we need to keep our protein intake at the upper ranger while at deficit in order to retain as much LBM as possible.

Jeff recommends getting 2.4 x kg.

 

[vanitysmurf]

@audreykate https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

 

[dawn16]

@audreykate 100g of protein powder per day shouldn't be bad.

 

[audreykate]

@dawn16 Even when cutting? That just seems super low.. I have been taught by the media wrongly perhaps.

 

[dawn16]

@audreykate No. I mean consume more protein powder if oyu need more protein.

 

[dawn16]

@audreykate Protein powder is less calories than actual food so it make more sense to use more while cutting !

 

[dawn16]

Search out an ebook by Brad Pilon called How Much Protein. It will explain how much we’ve been fed lies about protein intake.

 

[dawn16]

Well I'll stick to the more the better

 

[dawn16]

Not necessary, amigo.

 

[gigibella]

@audreykate My protein shake is 140g of protein (I drink the blender throughout the day). Between beans, grains, nuts, tofu, seitan, and shakes you can do it!

 

[butterflybee]

@audreykate I get anywhere from 140 - 150g of protein per day on about 1500-1700 kcals. I rely on protein powder, seitan, tofu, mock meats (Beyond Meat has great macros, also use Tofurky and Lightlife) as my primary sources of protein and I sometimes I have to take down my protein or I'll easily go too high.

I'm American, I get my tofu at Costco and my seitan and mock meats at Rayley's, Sprouts or Safeway (supermarkets). I get the Vegan Protein Optimizer from True Nutrition for my protein powder, so incredibly high protein as well.

Hope this helps!

 

[audreykate]

@butterflybee Thanks my dude. But Im just curious if that amount of protein is necessary.
How would it be different to have macros:
a) Protein: 150g
Carbs: 160g
Fat: 40g

     or

b) Protein: 110g
Carbs: 200g
Fat: 40g

Would it make a big difference in retaining muscle mass? or not really significant?

 

[juliedespino]

@audreykate I'm currently getting in about 190g of protein, 138g carbs, and 41g fat. I do a few protein shakes a day with double scoops. I also try to eat lots of seitan and tofu.

 

[raiders47]

@juliedespino Do you make or buy seitan and tofu? If you buy and are american, where do you get them?