Reminder: it's very hard to get adequate nutrition on a high-carb, low-fat, low-protein diet

[firespeed45]

@monte And then 9 months later they make a YouTube video about how veganism is actually unhealthy because they became anemic and lost 82 pounds eating only lettuce and bananas. That's why they're switching to the carnivore diet.

 

[monte]

@firespeed45 yeah it's crazy, it's so often the raw vegans who quit

 

[digitalgoth]

@firespeed45 I am aware that many fruits and vegetables while low in fat actually tend to have relatively high omega 3 to omega 6 ratios, just go look up the close nutritional details of broccoli and bananas, it's also worth mentioning that many nuts and seeds contain some omega 3's as well and with our true fatty needs (a person following a 2,000 calorie diet only requires a minimum of 13.5 grams of fat a day for hormone regulation) I think it might just be possible to get enough omega 3's as well as protein on a raw diet as long as there's a modest amount of nuts and seeds.

 

[firespeed45]

@digitalgoth Yes, many fruits and vegetables have good 3:6 ratios, but that's almost meaningless because the amount of fat present is miniscule. There's only 0.4 g total fat and 21 mg omega-3 in 100 g of raw broccoli. Even if you ate 400 grams (almost 6 cups) of broccoli, you'd still be getting only 84 mg omega-3. Adults need 1100 to 1600 mg per day, so this would contribute a pretty small amount to your daily needs.

Where are you getting this idea that we only need 13.5 g fat per day? That's extremely low. The WHO recommends a minimum of 15% of daily calories come from fat. 15% of 2000 = 300 calories from fat. Fat has 9 cal per gram, so 300 / 9 = 33.3 g fat per day for a 2000 cal diet.

It is possible to get enough fat and protein eating raw nuts and seeds, and you could get good 3:6 ratios if you focus on flax, chia, and walnuts. But there's no good evidence that eating a raw vegan diet is healthier than a cooked vegan diet, and it's so extreme that most people don't stick with it. I'm interested in promoting an ethical diet that people will actually stick with, and raw vegan ain't it for most people.

 

[digitalgoth]

@firespeed45 "But there's no good evidence that eating a raw vegan diet is healthier than a cooked vegan diet" I never insisted either one was better but my point was raw food diets indeedly can be healthy and be manageable, the reason why many might find them difficult to stick to is because of their cultural upbringing.

Broccoli was also only an example but if you look up advacodos regardless of their omega 3 & 9 ratio they still have 223 mg of omega 3's per fruit. Roughly 2,000 calories worth of broccoli also still surpasses 20 grams of fat (while of course it would be difficult to eat that much Broccoli other fruits & veggies you would combine your diet with many having higher fat concentrations could meet your needs at the end of the calorie haul. Many assume the true nutritional requirements by what mainstream organizations like WHO insist but it's also worth mentioning that their recommendations always will fluctuate and that the recommendations given could easily be influenced by corporate interest and for this reason we may never know for sure what the best diet is, it's all just a matter of what is healthy and of course what is most beneficial for the environment and that would be a vegan one.

 

[firespeed45]

@digitalgoth What is the source of your statement that we only need 13.5 g fat on a 2000-cal diet? WHO bases their recommendations on the best available evidence from the latest nutrition research. I’m curious to know what kinds of sources you find reputable if that doesn’t count.

And of course the recommendations from WHO fluctuate over time. That’s because our knowledge of nutrition science changes as we get new evidence. That’s how science is supposed to work. I would be extremely skeptical of any source that hasn’t changed their nutrient intake recommendations over the years.

 

[prettyrose]

@firespeed45 What you call knowledge is what I call speculation. The speculations can fluctuate all the time but the experiments showing that you can cure fat deficiency in humans with a few grams of these oils are not going to change. The need of fat is about 2g/day of which 1.5g should be LA. There is no real evidence that manipulating omega3/6 ratio has any benefit especially for vegans. For omnivores it may have some benefit because they have ARA in the diet and that may be dangerous (unlike LA).

The reputable sources are the experiments that have cured fat deficiency.

The raw vegan diets that you complain about are dangerous because you don't digest the raw foods and you get deficiencies in micronutrients. You also get a lot of difficult to digest foods to cope with. The macronutrients are about right (the 80/10/10 split).

 

[vdamir]

@firespeed45 All the meal plan PDFs on that website are really high in carbs and low in protein.

 

[firespeed45]

@vdamir I think people have different definitions of “high carb”, but the one I’m familiar with is at least 70% of calories from carbs. A couple of the meal plans are above 60%, so they’re close to that. Most of them are closer to 55%, which I would call moderate. They all have what I would consider moderate protein as well. I prefer more protein in my diet, but they are all adequate for most people. The high-carb, low-protein diets I’m talking about are the 80/10/10 type advocated by people like Douglas Graham.