Review my Program?

[sharkbait13]

Feel free to skip the background if it is too much

Background​

• 40 y/o male
• 6'2", 225 lbs (highest weight I've ever been) and 25% body fat (according to the InBody machine)
• I've been athletic in the past mostly endurance/cardio stuff
• I've weight lifted in the past, but have only taken it seriously since November
• We eat very healthy and cook almost all our own meals. I'm using a protein powder to supplement alongside vitamin D3
• At the gym 4 days a week
• Goal: strength & core stability

Injuries

L5/S1 herniation

• I will not do high bar squats at all, for now
  • preferring goblet squats and machines
• I will not do traditional deadlifts, for now
  • preferring barbell RDLs (but have none in my program right now, only single leg KB RDLs)

FABER Test

I self administered a faber test and my left hip has poor external rotation compared to the right. My right side QL (I believe) is overcompensating as a result. Because of this I am trying to focus on fixing my side to side issues before doing barbell squats and deadlifts.

Additionally I did one of those tests where you lay on your belly and raise each arm in front of you. My right arm can not raise as much as my left.

Progress

My bench went (reps) from 95lbs in late November to 165lbs. I'd like to get to 2 plates and then maintain until my strength inevitably declines.

Program​

Day 1​

Chest, Shoulders & Lats

• Chest stabilization warmup (prevent one side from sagging)
• Bench Press (70% RPE, 2 sets 8 reps, then AMAP)
• Incline Press
• Row cable pulls

Core Stability / Abs

• Single Side Slow Arm Carries
• Reverse Hyperextension

Legs - Quads, Hamstrings & Glutes

• Side Airplane to open up hip
• Leg Press
  
  very very slow and controlled
  • warm up: 1 plate, 1 set, 12 reps
  • working: 2 plates, 2 sets, 12 reps
  • feeling good: 3 plates, 2 sets, 8 reps
• Belt Squat
  
  I've not actually done this yet
• Leg curl machine

Day 2​

Chest, Shoulders & Lats

• Chest stabilization warmup
• Bench Press (75% RPE, 2 sets 6 reps, then AMAP)
• T Bar Row
  
  having trouble getting good engagement
• Pec Dec
  
  amazing engagement on both, love it

Core Stability / Abs

• Single Side Slow Arm Carries
• Reverse Hyperextension
• try: Gymnast Ab Tuck (from Athlean-X)
  
  Basically like leg raises, but much simpler

Legs - Quads, Hamstrings & Glutes

• Side Airplane to open up hip
• Single leg RDLs w/a KB
  
  unbelievably difficult, I use the smallest KBs I can find
• KB Swings (hams and glutes)
• DB Bulgarian Split Squats (Quads + Core)
  
  haven't started doing these yet

Day 3​

Chest, Shoulders & Lats

• Chest stabilization warmup
• Bench Press (80% RPE, 2 sets 4 reps, then AMAP)
• Machine Press?
  
  I've only done machine press one time and I felt amazing tricep engagement. Am considering working it on on this day since the volume is so low... might be "junk volume" though?
• Skull crushers?
  
  Might be too extra? I love the exercise

Core Stability / Abs

• Single Side Slow Arm Carries
• Reverse Hyperextension
• maybe? Side Planks
  
  haven't worked this in yet, am thinking about it

Legs - Quads, Hamstrings & Glutes

• Side Airplane to open up hip
• Single leg RDLs w/KB
• Hack Squat?
  
  haven't done this yet, am thinking about it
• Leg curl machine

D4 (Bonus / Swim Day)

My kids come to the gym with me on Fridays for swim class. While they are in class, I go upstairs for a quick session ~45-50 minutes

• Leg Press
• Reverse Grip Ez Bar Curls (Forearms)
  
  I liked having big forearms when I used to rock climb, and I think this will improve my grip strength
• Ez Bar Curls (Biceps)
  
  Since I'm already holding the darn ezbar
• Pull Ups?
  
  Haven't started doing them yet...but maybe? or dips?
• Lateral raise?
  
  Haven't started doing them again yet, but maybe if I have time?

----

Okay, so basically I don't have a bro split or PPL going on. I feel like these are all full body work outs. I know my workouts are overly centered on upper body when my injuries are lower body, so I'm trying to address that, but I think I need to do it slowly by addressing the stability issues first - hence the carries and the single leg RDLs.

All this said, very much looking for feedback.

 

[jimhempel]

@sharkbait13 Is your refusal to do squats and deadlifts out of fear or do they cause pain?

I herniated my L4-L5 and my L5-S1 (falling off a roof). I reset to low weight and built up slowly but after 2.5 years, both of those lifts are stronger than prior to injuries. I also think they were pretty instrumental in my recovery and strengthening of the injury sites.

Other things:

-RPE is what defines how many reps you do. AKA, if you do RPE 8, you would do as many reps as it takes until you feel like you only have two left in the tank that set. You don't set a RPE then set a rep amount. If you want to define a set number of reps. Then do the intensity (the weight) as a % of your 1RM (or 3 RM).

-You have only like 1 exercise for shoulders, incline bench (and its a partial shoulder).

-Reverse Hypers are a great posterior chain exercise (which would help your herniation) but I'm not sure if they are a great "core" exercise.

-For someone starting out, lots of isolation movements.

Overall:

This one, while it might work, is pretty disjointed. I'd say find a reputable starter program and follow it, but might have to get over the squat and deadlift thing.

This is just my opinion though!

 

[lanman87]

@jimhempel Just seconding that I had a bad back in my early thirties and was super freaked out by the idea of squats and deadlifts.

Started with the bar and never had any issues, my back is never an issue these days.

 

[sharkbait13]

@lanman87 I can deadlift properly and squat well, very low, full ROM. I just don't enjoy it because I'm nervous about injury.

Last time I deadlifted (few weeks back) very low weight (60 a side, so 165 lb total)

I'm happy to do low weight like that, but am exploring squat alternatives like belt squat and hack squat

As for deadlift, I think the majority of the issue is going to be the initial pick up. I've got decent form on that, but I'm concerned that as I go up in weight, picking up from the floor is going to be an issue for me, so I'm going to do RDLs which get picked up from the safety bars on a power rack instead

 

[sharkbait13]

@jimhempel re: squats/deadlifts, it's barbell squats and traditional deadlifts specifically which I'm avoiding, for now, until I fix my hip imbalances as mentioned. So I'm concentrating on single leg deadlifts and other forms of squat.

Yes, the reverse hypers are for my back. I just needed a place to group it. I'd consider additional and harder exercises for core if you have suggestions.

I'm not sure if you mentioned isolation movements as if I have too many for someone starting out or not enough. If the former, most people recommend compound exercises from what I've seen. What is your rationale if you meant the former?

tbh though, I'm not going to do barbell squats and traditional deadlifts for a long while, and the 'reputable programs' all overly fixate on them imo. I was doing Nuckols' program for bench/squat/deadlift (am now only doing it for bench) which is 'reputable' -

I just don't think it deadlift/squat are necessary, esp. given my injury, glute weakness, imperfect form, and imbalances. I don't want to get hurt from squating where I have to take muscle relaxants for days until I can walk again when there are other exercises to build up the armor around my back.

 

[jimhempel]

@sharkbait13

I'm not sure if you mentioned isolation movements as if I have too many for someone starting out or not enough. If the former, most people recommend compound exercises from what I've seen. What is your rationale if you meant the former?

Yes, I meant it as compound movements usually are and should be the foundation for any good program. Big compound movements have the best utility, function, and applicability to everyday life and sport. Isolation exercises, not so much (though they still have their place).

tbh though, I'm not going to do barbell squats and traditional deadlifts for a long while, and the 'reputable programs' all overly fixate on them imo. I was doing Nuckols' program for bench/squat/deadlift (am now only doing it for bench) which is 'reputable' -

The reputable programs "overly fixate" on them because there is literally over a hundred years of good science and programs that have shown them to be some of the best lifting exercises you can do. No isolation movement nor machine is gonna produce better strength, balance, muscle growth, etc per unit of time and over as many muscle groups as the foundation compound exercises will.

I just don't think it deadlift/squat are necessary, esp. given my injury, glute weakness, imperfect form, and imbalances. I don't want to get hurt from squating where I have to take muscle relaxants for days until I can walk again when there are other exercises to build up the armor around my back.

Necessary is a function of optimal progression. But your stated your goals are strength and core stability. Any program that does not include compound movements is going to be sub optimal to those goals, compared to programs that do. No two ways about it. If you are ok with a sub optimal program then go with a home brew that doesn't include them.

Again I've had your same injury and they helped me heal up and get stronger. Maybe you need to take some classes to learn proper form for both and give some confidence?

 

[sharkbait13]

@jimhempel Okay so we're in agreement re: the value of compound exercises

But then how are goblet, hack and belt squat not acceptable alternatives and not also compound exercises?

same for RDLs

And crap, I'm just realizing I excluded the goblet squats that I am regularly doing from my program above. Do them right after my single leg RDLs

 

[itrm]

@sharkbait13 I love deadlifts just as much as the next guy, but RDLs are every bit as good as doing deadlifts. All the hypertrophic benefits with a better stimulus/fatigue ratio and lower injury risk. You're missing absolutely nothing by not doing deadlifts. Just my opinion, of course, but an opinion that is supported by lots of other stuff other than my personal experience. Read up on it.

As for squats - it's true that it's going to be hard to continue overloading via goblet squats. But, as a fellow sufferer of herniated L4-L5 - I've found that I can front squat with basically zero lower back pain. Other lower back sufferers also find this to be the case. Yes, you can't front squat as much as you can back squat - but who cares? You're getting a crazy stimulus with lower weight - win-win. Also, front squats do have a learning curve - but again, who cares? So it will take you longer to learn the movement, forcing you to use lower weights for longer, further lowering injury risk. Doesn't sound like you're in any rush.

And I know this will rankle all the free weight truthers out there, but you can use machines, hack squats, and all the variations and you're going to get pretty much all the benefits of free weights. All the supposed "stabilizer" and core benefits are highly overrated. Unless you're a competitive powerlifter, it-does-not-matter. I personally love using free weights just because, but there's no magic to them, or to any movement honestly. Compounds are great and all, but if you train hard and do it consistently, you're going to get really strong and get bigger and no one will be able to tell the difference whether you do it with compounds or cables.

 

[sharkbait13]

@itrm Agree on RDLs v. deadlifts, I watch a good amount of what I consider to be creditable YouTubers and they seem to agree (Squat University, Jeff Nippard, Renaissance Periodization, AthleanX)

As for squats - yes, I like front squats, getting your elbow up that high is a bit weird, but I didn't mind it after a few sessions. I think I could mix that in

Agree on preferring compounds, but I'm never going to choose an exercise that makes me feel uncomfortable or less motivated to go the gym. If I can do something else until I'm comfortable, I'll do that. I can hit some of those stabilizer muscles separately.

Thank you!

 

[itrm]

@sharkbait13 Yeah, all those youtubers have quality info- although sometimes they conflict with each other; but you have a brain so make your own decision in the end. Mike Israetel recently did a video about how front squats suck and basically almost everyone in the comments disagreed and many noted that they are great for people with lower back issues and--directly contrary to what Dr. Mike said - shoulder issues. Ditto for me--I've got a surgically reconstructed shoulder in addition to my shit lower back.

 

[sharkbait13]

@itrm Out of all of them, I take Dr. Mike with the largest grain of salt - he explicitly says in his videos (Nippard too) that his target audience is really advanced weightlifters, maybe advanced intermediates too.

But yes, I learned a very very long time ago that fitness / health / diet is all quite personal, what works for one won't work for the other. The primary thing is showing up and not getting hurt, not massive week over week gains. I'm 40... I'm not competing with anyone

 

[jimhempel]

@sharkbait13 You will have a harder time maintaining progression on goblet squats as your arms will become the limitation. Hack squats you'll loose stabilizing and balance muscle groups. Same with belt squats. Each of those is good as additional volume or switching stuff up once in a while but IMO should not be your core exercises.

And yes its about value, but per unit of time, compound exercises are going to be the best bang for you buck (e.g. time).

Again, just my opinion!

 

[jcm2000]

@jimhempel

RPE is what defines how many reps you do. AKA, if you do RPE 8, you would do as many reps as it takes until you feel like you only have two left in the tank that set. You don't set a RPE then set a rep amount. If you want to define a set number of reps. Then do the intensity (the weight) as a % of your 1RM (or 3 RM).

You can do RPE with a set number of reps. You pick your RPE then pick a weight that aligns with your set reps.

For example if you have an RPE 8 day and it calls for 5 reps, you put on a weight that you can do 7 reps with. If you are doing 5x5@RPE 8 you adjust the weights each set to average out at RPE 8.

It is a great way to make adjustments to %1RM based programs and auto regulate them better.

It is also essential if you are doing specific cycles with specific focuses. eg. A straight strength cycle has no business dealing with reps above 5. (you could even argue 3).

Note: like all auto regulated programming, it does take time to learn how your body responds to different weights. The AMRAP would be a good feedback device to find out if your RPE8 actually was RPE 8. But once OP gets the hang of it, maybe stop going to RPE 10 every week.

 

[jimhempel]

@jcm2000

You can do RPE with a set number of reps. You pick your RPE then pick a weight that aligns with your set reps.

For example if you have an RPE 8 day and it calls for 5 reps, you put on a weight that you can do 7 reps with. If you are doing 5x5@RPE 8 you adjust the weights each set to average out at RPE 8.

That's putting the cart before the horse with RPE. RPE was designed to regulate each day. Some days will be better or worse than others. You go until it feels like RPE X that day.

If you set a weight and say "Im going to stop at 5 knowing I can get 7" you just took the long way to do a simple Rep + % of 1RM scheme and aren't doing RPE at all.

 

[jcm2000]

@jimhempel

If you set a weight and say "Im going to stop at 5 knowing I can get 7" you just took the long way to do a simple Rep + % of 1RM scheme and aren't doing RPE at all.

You are so close to appreciating the full benefits of RPE. When lifting you have several variables at your disposal. Intensity, reps, bar speed, sets, and total volume. With your model you are ignoring many of them and turning it into a basic RM program with some extra steps.

Thats fine, but it has a couple problems. Especially as you mature as an athlete. I'll go into those in a bit. But first where you are spot on...

You go until it feels like RPE X that day.

Yes! This! Your 1RM isn't static. If you are having a heavy day and it calls for heavy triples, you might not be able to get them if you are using set in stone %1RM calculations. If you use RPE you can adjust the load appropriately for the day.

As you lift longer you will start to appreciate the different types of 1RM you have. You have your "I can walk into the gym and hit this max any day" ones, you have your "I can probably hit this one half the time", and you have your "The stars align and the moon is just right and with enough sniffing salts and chalk eating I can pull this max".

Now here is the problem with just repping shit out every day.

It doesn't make any sense to be doing a strength based cycle and repping out weights to 10-15 reps to hit an RPE goal. It means you are lifting too light and too many reps.

Take a look at Prilepin's chart. https://powerliftingtechnique.com/prilepins-chart/

Now think about how to use it for RPE. It opens up a ton of great options that autoregulate day to day. Is the chart perfect? No, its 50 years old but still provides a great starting point to illustrate what I'm trying to drive home.

You can adjust reps and volume depending on if you are focusing on power, hypertrophy, work capacity, or strength during that cycle and select appropriate volumes and intensities for each.

I know a lot of people are going to be tempted to put down the SBS article about how rep ranges don't matter and it is all about sets close to failure. If that is you, I would highly encourage you to take a look at the article and actually read it. That is for hypertrophy. And of course for hypertrophy that is what matters more. But if you are trying to train max strength you need to lift heavy. You cannot lift heavy for high reps. Same if you are trying to train power. You cannot train power for high reps. If you are going above 3 reps in power training, you fucked up.

There are hundreds of thousands of strength athletes that have verified this. You won't find a single good powerlifter doing meet prep with sets of 15 trying to hit an RPE 8 goal.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my ted talk about autoregulation your strength training. Hopefully it clears up some things.

TL;DR: using RPE only as a guide on when to stop a set is short sighted for anyone training with specific strength goals. Use it to select intensities too.

 

[sharkbait13]

@jimhempel i meant as % of 1RM not RPE in my notes above at 70/75/80

 

[jimhempel]

@sharkbait13 If those are percentages of 1RM, then you need to bump of the reps.

70% should be about 10-12. 75% should be about 10ish. 80% should be about 8-10. Your volume is pretty low otherwise.

 

[sharkbait13]

@jimhempel So my program right now is:

Day 1, 70%, 2 sets 8 reps, 1 set AMAP

Day 2, 75%, 2 sets 6 reps, 1 set AMAP

Day 3, 80%, 2 sets 4 reps, 1 set AMAP

And then I do additional chest work after (incline, etc, as shown above)

I think you registered all this though, and you're still saying do more... I think the Nuckol's program is trying to get me to add weight over reps, week over week until I can no longer easily progressively overload, at which point then I'm not a "beginner" (per Dr. Mike's definition) and then should do things like what you're suggesting, additional reps, etc.

Not trying to dismiss your advice, I'm just mentioning what I've based my current thing off of / what I've heard.

 

[jimhempel]

@sharkbait13 Again, you're asking for critique, which I'm trying to give constructively. And again, its just my opinion, so you are free to dismiss it or not.

But yes, you need more volume. Yes, adding weight is usually an easier concept to maintain progressive overload than other options (which is what the Nuckol's program does). Will you make "gains" with that program? Probably. But they will be sub optimal compared to what you can achieve with more tried and true programs/methods.

In my first post I suggested finding a real starter program (like Rippetoe's Starting Strength) until you can't run it anymore. But then we circle back to your fear of compound movements issue.

 

[sharkbait13]

@jimhempel I'll check it out. Everyone says good things about that program.

totally agree re: you can only find a kettlebell which is so heavy / eventually your grip isn't strong enough. When that happens I'll move to traditional squat - maybe, but again only if I correct my hip issue