Risk v reward

T

ttcmacro

New member
Are deadlift and squat rewards worth the risk?

I’m a 40m. A year ago I hurt my back just moving some boxes. I ended up getting a CT scan and turns out I have some back issues that I’ve probably overlooked for a while, and will now course me to be a lot more careful with my back.
Prior to the injury I was focused on mainly compound movements, deadlifts and squats of course. Well after the injury I stayed away from those exercises for fear of re-injury.

I’m just recovered from foot surgery and I’m starting back lifting.
A few older guys at my gym, mid to late 50s, say that the risk of injury is not worth the reward with deadlifts and squats.

The more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Thoughts from anyone who’s going through something similar or just your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Edit:
So this got a lot of responses. I truly appreciate all the insight and guidance.
I want to let you know that’s guys at my gym are not just some newbies. They’ve been working out for years and are incredibly healthy for their age. I consider their insight as well.

General consensus here is: the benefit is worth it if you have good form and don’t overload weight. To listen to your body and know when to slow down. Also know your specific goals and lift to meet those goals. (My goal is not to be a power lifter, just trying to be above average.)

I think an issue prior to my injury was my form. I need to talk to one of the trainers at my gym. Check out some of the books and videos that you all recommend and get my form locked in before I progress any further.

I start PT for my foot soon and I will not start these lifts until I’m fully healed and cleared by my PT. No sense in trying them again with an unstable foundation.

I absolutely love this sub and all the inspiration and insight that it brings. Again I truly appreciate it and hopefully this thread helped out others too!
 
@ttcmacro squats and deadlifts will make your back and hips stronger, allowing you to move and pick up other weight more easily.

injuries usually are cause my mismanaged load and fatigue. if you're worried about injury you can avoid going for all out maxes. you can train within 50%-90% of maximum load, for reps, indefinitely. i follow 531 myself, which focuses on sub-maximal training without hitting failure. i recommend.

ive gotten hurt multiple times on deadlifts and squats, and it was never not worth it. you come back after a week or two, and find other exercises to reinforce your problem areas. you'll be stronger and less likely to get injuries or sprains from everyday activity.
 
@rsm777 I focused a lot on strengthening my core as a result of the injury. Then having my foot surgery I just fallen back a lot.
Can you describe the 531 method to me? I’ve seen others post about it but I do t really understand the meaning.
 
@ttcmacro the simplest way i can describe it, is you take your 3-5 rep max and thats your "Training Max" (TM). then you work multiple sets at different %s of your TM. read up on some sample templates on the wiki

today im doing squats. based on the template im running(leviathan), i'm going to squat 70%x3, 80%x3, 90%x3, and 100%x1. Then im gonna squat 5x5 at 80%. there are also accessory lifts (much lower weight, usually 50reps per move), and conditioning components.
 
@rsm777 Minor clarification on the TM, its not a 3-5 rep max. It's a set of 3-5 that's hard but still with good bar speed. His current recommendation in almost all cases is 5 reps.
 
@ttcmacro You don't HAVE to do deadlifts or squats. Or any specific movement, really.

It's just that squats & deadlifts are the extremely effective for strength training your legs, core & back.

If you want to prevent future back injuries, you really need to do some back work. Abs too.
 
@ttcmacro Mid-forties guy here who got back into lifting a few years ago.

I squat and deadlift. It's fun and makes me strong. But I really focus on mobility and technique. Even a slight "twinge" and I cut back or stop.

Focus on learning your body and listening to it. If you want/need to improve flexibility, mobility, physical therapy, etc, do that.

Stop overlooking your injuries. Instead focus on them and focus on getting healthy. It sounds like you had multiple injuries in the last year. I would focus on mobility and bulletproofing your joints and back. I wouldn't worry so much about deadlifts or squats until you're healthy. Also, I wouldn't ask the internet about which exercises you could do. Instead, go find a physical therapist that you like. Don't mess around with injuries man.

Personally, my plan is to keep lifting as long as I can, I'll see if I can make it to my 90s. That probably means avoiding injury at all cost, and when the inevitable injuries come, addressing them immediately and thoroughly. Just my two cents.
 
@freethinker711 I definitely “overlooked” my back for years in my late 30s. A twing here or there and I’d take it easy for a day and be back at it. This last injury really messed with me. Let’s just say it required an ambulance ride. I’ve done PT for my back and continue to work in those movements and stretches as much as I can. I also start PT for my foot next week.
A lot of issues but overall I’m glad I can start to lift weights again.
I’ll definitely be talking with my PT about what I should be doing and what to avoid
 
@freethinker711 Adding to this to say there are ways to make lighter weights go further, e.g. higher rep ranges, pauses, high rom, slow eccentrics, Myo reps. Good techniques to learn generally, but as I've aged I've used them particularly to keep the stress on the muscles and less so connective tissues and the like.
 
@ttcmacro 44m. I consider the deadlift and squat to be low risk and high reward, so for me, yes, it is worth it. You don't have to do them if you don't want to though.
 
@ttcmacro The day will come when I stop red-lining my strength. But, I'm not there yet.

During my warm-up squats, I like sitting in a deep ATG position. I don't think 135 is heavy nor impressive, but your average civilian lacks the mobility for this.

It doesn't take much strength to maintain the ability to get off the toilet.

Leg press simply can't make me feel in control of my own body the way squats, deads, and rows can.
 
@ttcmacro As someone who’s 46 and fairly recently got into going to the gym, and slightly intimidated by the more serious lifters, this is a great read. Thanks OP and all who have commented.
 
@pengyone We all gotta start somewhere! I did at 47 (after a lifetime of on and offs) and now getting pretty strong at 52. Just keep moving heavy things and you will start to look back fondly the farther you progress from here.
 
@ttcmacro I hurt my back, lifting boxes at age 30. I actually never went to the doctor because it came and went. I would tweak it and be barely able to walk for a few days and then fine for months until I had to lift or move something again.

Years ago I started jiu-jitsu and made a point to stretch my back out every time and it all helped a lot and I did not have anywhere near the same sort of issues.

When I began lifting I was freaked out about squats and deadlifts. I avoided them at first entirely, but eventually decided I would start with the bar only, and progress from there, focusing solely on my technique and if I hit any real issues, I'd stop and evaluate.

I have not had to stop and evaluate because of pain or injury. My back feels great and I credit the lifting.

Now, what I will say is that I am considering my programming for both because I kind of feel like I'm strong enough, and I'd guess that the risk of injury increases with weight. There is little value for me personally in going much beyond 3/4 plates. I don't compete in any activity these days and I don't really care about huge numbers.
 
@ttcmacro I am of the opinion that deadlifts and squats help prevent the type of injury you are referring to…when done with good form and with appropriate loads, anyway.

Like “Mark Smelly Bell” says:

Strength is never a weakness, and weakness is never a strength.
 
@ttcmacro Squats and deadlifts *can be* dangerous IF you don't learn form and IF you don't work on conditioning.

Done with solid study, working your way up in weight, and reasonable execution (including warming up and stretching), I'd say they're good for your back. (If you don't have an obvious medical reason preventing you)

Source: Me, growing up thinking I had a bad back (in my 20s), then applied a couple years of strength training and now I feel I have a strong back. (33)
 
@kody Are you me?? 20s= same. Injured my spine (bulging disc) about a decade ago, But now I’m really pushing heavy deads (well up to body weight) at 53.
 
@ttcmacro You can mitigate a lot of the risk by moving to front squats (lower weights and pretty much impossible to cheat through with poor form) and trapbar deadlifts (less sheer force on the spine).
 
@ttcmacro I don't think you can't do these exercises as someone speaking who has a back injury also that flares up (a disc bulge) but you may not be able to use the same weight as before and there are also different variations of each exercise. If you can only do bodyweight with the squat I would encourage you not to take it out, as it is a motion one uses daily. So even if you don't do it formally in the gym as if you are worried about injury, I would practice it at home in a chair with your arms crossed up and down. I am working with a family member right now with a limited range of motion and this was given as an exercise.

A deadlift exercise that may not be worth the risk if your back issues are serious enough though I know others have differing opinions and I find it hard to get a full consensus in my own research. However I myself am trying to ease back into trying a deadlift out again (after years of not trying it since my own injury) when talking to a PT recently they said I should be ok as they had worked with me before. Personally if I do got back to doing it I would not try deadlifting a heavy weight, you may also come to that conclusion or find it's not worth the risk. Maybe you should find a PT to work with a couple sessions and get their advice since I am not sure what the extent of your injuries are with your back and now your foot.
 
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