Running the Giant program- C+P or push press/jerk?

[belovedsone]

I'd like to ask a question for those with a lot more experience/educational background than myself.

I've been running the Giant 1.0 and finished up recently, about to start up 1.1 now, but I've noticed the programs creator Geoff Neupert said he made the program a C+P program because americans don't have good t-spine mobility, it's less complex than a long cycle, etc.. In other words, we suck at it lol.

But what if we know how to do long cycle, push press, etc.? Getting to my point, which do you think is the overall more beneficial exercise? the strict C+P, or jerks and push press?

Geoff says you can train either, I'm just wondering which would in the long run be the better one to train, thanks.

 

[mir2017lma]

@belovedsone I just started the giant doing c&p. As for the benefits of one pressing movement over another, here are my thoughts.

Assuming the same weight, the main difference would probably be shoulder fatigue. I would expect the number of completed reps to increase as one went from press, to pp, to jerk. In doing more reps, you would get more cleans in a workout and experience more systemic conditioning as the legs would never get a break.

Assuming your weights scale with the movement so that you achieved the same number of reps per workout, regardless of the press movement, you would be cleaning more weight going from press to pp to jerk. Again, more systemic conditioning would occur the heavier the weight.

What I don't know is how they would impact pressing strength. I don't know what would make your pressing stronger; pressing a set number of reps or doing more reps (same weight) with either pp or jerk, OR pressing the same number of reps or doing more weight (same reps) for pp or jerk.

For pure pressing ability, I would guess that pp or jerk might not carry over as well as just doing the presses. However, after typing this out and thinking about it, doing pp or jerk would probably lend itself to better conditioning and perhaps physique change.

 

[belovedsone]

@mir2017lma I'm in between 1.0 and 1.1 this week, and sort of playing around with both versions to get a feel for it, but thought I would also ask here too.

C+P seems to be more upper body oriented, you get the feel of a strength workout afterwards in the upper body.

C+J definitely hits the legs and aerobic system a lot harder, I felt more wiped out doing this.

So my thoughts sort of mirror yours in that regard, I think the C+J is overall better workout, and your going to get more work done in the allotted time(sets of reps), I just don't know how it's going to impact strength long term. But this is just my opinion based on my limited experience.

My goals are to eventually move up bells, I'm working with double 20kgs right now for the program.

 

[emm]

@belovedsone GS guy here.

I see that your goal is to move up in bell size. With that in mind, I would definitely recommend C&J. With the jerk you can move more weight. When you've done enough jerks with a heavier weight, your pressing strength will improve as well, since you'll have to stabilize the weight at the top.

Perhaps you could start doing C&J with the 24s (or even the 28s; I don't have enough context to make an appropriate recommendation). Surely your press with the 20s will go up.

BTW, have you considered doing alternating cycles with C&P and C&J?

 

[belovedsone]

@emm I see quite a few along with you are recommending that I alternate both, or at least create a strong base with C+P first, so I may just do that. I do own a pair of 24's, and one 28, but I have a while to go before I get another one to make a pair.

I've even thought of making the high rep days(especially those 8's and 9 days) C+J for weeks 2 and 3, then go back to C+P on week 4 to see the difference from week 1. Yeah, it would be 'cheating' I guess, but I would be putting in more work overall.

 

[mir2017lma]

@belovedsone Yeah I am definitely limited by muscular shoulder fatigue so far doing c+p, and my main goal is to improve pressing strength (with a few other minor goals that made me think Giant was a good fit). In my experience with barbells, pressing and pp benefit and carryover to each other, then pp and jerk carryover and benefit each other. But I didn't see jerks benefitting my presses as much. I think this is because pp builds and requires strength at the top end to press-out the weight. Jerks and pp both need and build the leg drive needed to move the weight. The skills and power needed for a successful jerk aren't the same as needed for a strong press.

 

[jim_68]

@mir2017lma The negative on the jerk helps with pressing strength to some degree..

For overall strength long cycle ie clean & jerk for 5-10mins non stop is a huge killer - of ego and body

 

[lillyjd]

@belovedsone If you want to train long cycle I would do so after running all giant programs as is as it served as quite a good base block if you view it through traditional periodised lens.

An additional consideration not mentioned yet is the variety in power/strength between c&p and c&j differs somewhat that the jerk leans more into the power side of the continuum and as such requires a certain level of base conditioning to prevent injury.

 

[cardinalstorm]

@belovedsone You could do one cycle of C&P then jerks

 

[dawn16]

@belovedsone Context matters. With it I wouldnt be able to tell you which might be more beneficial. What do you want to achieve with the exercise? If your primary goal lets say was to strictly improve OH strength then the strict press would probably be the best option. If you’re trying to overload overhead while getting some power and strength gains then push pressing is your go-to. Lastly, if OH stability and overall power is what your looking for then the jerk is the way to go. All this ofcourse if you have the range of motion to do them safely. Let me know what your context is and then we can answer the question.