Vegan Bodybuilding Possible>? Twin Observational "Experiment"

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hebrewmyyah

New member
Hey Guys -

My twin brother and I decided to go on a 7-month vegan vs. meat bodybuilding experiment and I'm sharing my results here (I couldn't find any conclusive twin studies outside of people who transitioned and had good results. For example, I couldn't see what the results could have been on a meat diet, i.e. what's the counterfactual?). Curious what your thoughts are on my experience / observations and the overall result FOR bodybuilding.

Also, I've been a natural bodybuilder for almost 6 years if you're interested in experience level.

@b.z.striazn

Thanks!

 
@hebrewmyyah Hey, thanks for the video. It was insightful.

You seem like a genuine person and your presentation was objective and as a vegan who's currently interested in powerbuilding, I was entertained.

Just some things I'd like to clear up though.

There's no way that Nimai is natural. I understand his message, and I won't discredit his hard work and motives, but claiming natural is just too far.

Secondly, as for your stress/sickness - do you think it could be the culmination of seasonal change or work stress?

Next, do you mind experimenting with cow's milk and telling us your experience about hopping back onto dairy in say, 1-2 months? I know people say that they develop digestion issues, skin issues etc after abstaining from dairy for periods of time.

Have you heard of AlphaDestiny? He's not a vegan, but he consumes a plant-based diet about 99% of the time. Genuine guy, definitely natural. I think some of his vegan/plant-based videos may interest you.

Are there any aspects of the plant-based diet that you're planning to stick with? Were there any foods that you enjoyed or noticed success from?

I'm really curious to see a video (although very unlikely) of your brother trying a vegan diet for 6-7 months, and you, a meat-based diet. The results could really shed some light on the plant-based fitness movement.

I don't know. I've been training seriously for about 5-6 months now and I'm really happy with everything. I can outlift some of my meat-eating friends and I feel great. I have no plans to stop (because I'm doing this based on my ethics), but I'd be curious to see what a meat-based diet could do.

Once again, thanks for the video.

Good luck with your pro comp in 2020! :)
 
@hebrewmyyah Have a few questions:
  1. Were you on accutane the entire time? (Your brother wasn’t I’m guessing?)
  2. Since you’re very calculated, do u have your diet plan saved? Maybe a weeks worth of food (to share)?
  3. did you do bloodwork before and after?
  4. Do you think you could be wrongly criticizing your progression considering your natural with almost a decade of experience/muscle maturity? (Most naturals I know have a hard time quantifying gains after a certain point)
My main reason for #1 although anecdotal I’ve used accutane and would never again in the future. It was probably one of the worst compounds I’ve ever experienced. ( I’m not natty, I’ve used clen, DNP, tren) the dryness the lethargy, the cracking/bleeding lips every morning and dry skin constantly
 
@one12man Same! Accutane NEVER AGAIN! Constant pain and I looked like the joker thanks to the permanent cracks in the corners of my mouth. Accutane is terrible on your body. Hence why they make you take monthly blood tests, use two forms of birth control, and basically tell you you’ll have to get an abortion if you do become pregnant. Scary shit. Don’t know why I ever thought it would be worth it
 
@sharkman As someone's who's used accutane for about 8 years. It's not that bad if you dose properly. When I first got it prescribed I had 40mg/day, and I had horribly dry skin and my nose bled a lot. After 2 years of that an 6months of my Doc noticed my acne wasn't going away so I got a lower dose for a longer time. 40mg/week was my new dose and it was perfect. Not sides and no acne.
 
@sharkman Exactly! It’s even worse for women.. so terrible. That was honestly one of the worst experiences of health and overall well being I’ve experienced.

Side note: switching to plant based diet a year cleared up any acne I had without any drugs. Sure occasional pimple here or there but nothing like before on a carnist diet. I think that has a lot to do with what you mentioned in the video regarding fats and other animal products. They have too many free radicals and inflammation causing properties. On top of that, me being on anabolics increases oil production in skin due to increased androgens in my blood stream; but even on a plant based diet, no acne issues.
 
@one12man Well 3 years after doing 6 months of accutane my cystic acne came back with a vengeance. My dermatologist told me to try 3 more months of accutane and I said a big ole fuck that. Fast forward to about a year ago when I went whole-foods plant-based, and now I am completely acne free with just an occasional pimple when I eat processed shit! It’s amazing! I get compliments on my skin regularly. Wish I had known that being vegan was the most effective acne treatment years ago!
 
@one12man
  1. Yup was on accutane the whole time, my brother started his treatment a month before I did.
  2. I did not track all my food, the only conditions were (i) bulk as we would normally; and (ii) meet 150g - 200g of protein; the reasoning here is that this is what most normal people would do. If I had to track and basically meal prep all my meals, even in the off season, this would have been too invasive to my regular life making it not feasible in the first place.
  3. Blood work was done monthly due to being on accutane and all test results were normal.
  4. This is possible; however again these were observational results. During the 6 months, I stayed the same lean, with less weight. My brother had about 5-7 lbs more on me - not sure if it was clear based on the shirtless video of us haha.
As for the treatment; I actually had not real negative effects. Only side effect was dry lips and skin. The treatment was great and I had no other side effects and finished the same time I transitioned back.
 
@hebrewmyyah Very interesting, you have me somewhat stumped. But a few other things come to mind:
  1. If you stopped eating fish, did you start having flax/chia/hemp seeds to find a new source of Omega 3s, or supplement? I saw avocados on your list, which is good.
  2. Seitan is wheat gluten, which bothers a lot of people's digestion. Is it possible that it was contributing to your ulcers? Would you considering reintroducing seitan into your current diet to see how it goes?
  3. Did you continue to take creatine?
  4. Any chance that you were simply not eating as many calories compared to your regular diet?
My best guess at this point is stress over the change in diet, and the fear of losing gains, to the point of having nightmares. We underestimate the influence of our mind over our body, especially in the case of stress ulcers.

Nonetheless, this is very interesting.
 
@hebrewmyyah Yeah fyi seitan is a really rubbish source of protein, the PDCAAS is really low. It also can produce some really bad inflammatory responses (in some people) due to being ~80% gluten, which may have been the cause of your joint pain.

Also I know its a bit of extra work but have you ever experimented with getting dry beans, soaking them overnight, and cooking with them instead? I find I have basically no problems with them, but the canned ones do seem to affect me.

Thanks so much for doing this though, and well done for sticking with it for as long as you did. Do you think there are any aspects to the diet you'll incorporate going forward?
 
@1hope4all
©
Click to expand...

Interesting, I did not know that about Seitan, quite possible. With regards to beans, yeah I will try that. It's the gas that really gets me... haha.

Yeah there are lots of things I see no harm in continuing with. I'm still not eating dairy and eggs. I'm trying to primarily get my protein from lean white meat sources now (fish, turkey) as well as through vegan protein supplementation. And I would say now, I am eating a lot more fruits and veg naturally than before.
 
@hebrewmyyah Yeah I'm seeing a lot of people moving in that direction these days. Guess that's what progress looks like.

Glad to have been any help, will sub to your channel to see how you get on.
 
@hebrewmyyah Yeah, when you start eating beans theres lot of gas, your body has to get used to it. Also, you can rinse the beans with water, and that helps with gas too. How much did you change your diet back to esting lean meats? When you started to get stength and gains back
 
@hebrewmyyah I'm suspecting either an Accutane issue (I was on it, that shit is deadly), or a nutrient defficiency. The ulcers were likely related to the Accutane and stress - beans and spinach don't give you ulcers. Maybe your body was shocked by the amount of fiber suddenly? The idea that you felt the need to force-feed yourself might indicate that you weren't eating enough calorically dense foods.

Were you supplementing with B12, and still taking creatine and the same supplements? Were you taking vegan protein powder, or getting it all from food?

Thank you for sharing this video and trying this lifestyle out. I look forward to you identifying the missing link, and finding what was missing.
 
@raymondven Yeah, the accutane treatment seems to be a recurring concern. I didn't include this in the video, but my brother and I both were on it, and he actually started it 1 month prior to me and he had slightly worse hormonal cystic acne. I had blood test done monthly by the doctor due to the treatment, and all my results were normal. I supplemented my diet with a B-12, iron, and calc/mg/zinc supplement, and vegan omega-3s. I was using only vegan protein powder (which I'm continuing to use because I am still lactose intolerant and can't take whey).

As for my diet it was mainly some variations of:
  1. Lots of fruit (pineapple, strawberries, blueberries + avocados)
  2. Mostly tofu and seitan for high protein low carbs;
  3. Salads that contained spring and kale mixes;
  4. Bean Burgers & other kinds of vegan junk food (to get calories in for bulking);
  5. Various vegan restaurant dishes, usually soups, meatless pasta etc.
 
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