What is a better transition workout: easier variations vs negatives vs lower reps vs longer rest?

[yahleel]

What is more effective to build up towards a full workout? Let’s say my goal is to be able to do 3 sets of 10 pull ups and currently I can do only one set of 8-10 pull ups but then my arms are completely fatigued.

1) Easier variations like Australian pull up (10x3)

2) Jumping negatives (10x3)

3) Smaller sets with clean form (e.g 3x3)

4) Longer rests (e.g 10 pull ups, rest 10-15 min while training other body parts, then repeat)

Does this matter at all or I can just pick one method and stick with it?

 

[rainbowintheclouds]

@yahleel Usually I do it like this: if I can't do the easiest progression, then negatives it is. Else, I'll try to increase reps. If I can't, maybe I'll rest a bit more between sets.

If I'm still stuck, I'll add an easier variation or negatives at the end of all sets to reach an arbitrary total rep goal. Let's say I'm doing 3x7. By the end of those, I'll add a set and try doing as much reps as possible. Repeat until I added 9 easier reps (to reach 30 total).

When I reach 3x10 without additional work, I keep at it until I'm consistent doing that and advance one progression. I do this with weighted chins for example

 

[dawn16]

@yahleel Resident lord and saviour @fromgenesistorevelation just posted a video about this. It's sort of a pyramid style training.

 

[candycehill]

@yahleel It depends what your goals are.

If you’re trying to build muscular endurance then go with options 1, 2, and 4. If you want to build strength then option 3 is more appropriate.

I’d recommend adopting a reverse pyramid approach if you want both, starting with your hardest sets first when you’re most fresh and can get the most benefit out of that workout. Doing heavy sets when you’re fatigued is going to be much less effective, can result in subconsciously slipping into bad form, and hence ultimately carries higher injury risk, so is recommended to do heavier sets first after warming up thoroughly.

A good example of RPT would be your clean form sets, followed by jumping negatives, followed by assisted variations or Australian pull-ups etc.

Then as you get stronger you can transition to your first sets being weighted or more advanced variations, dropping weight with each subsequent set, until you get to bodyweight or assisted variations.

Make sure to warm up thoroughly though before doing your top first set, such as doing sets of 1-3 reps on assisted variations, stretching, light curls.

 

[yahleel]

@candycehill That's really great advice, thank you!

 

[majordadsage]

@yahleel All of those and more.

Personally I view easier variations as a base - you have to be able to do more reps and more sets of easier variation than what your goal is.

The negatives for me are a bit problematic. I wouldn't use them as a base, more like an accessory. And only do them SLOW and CONTROLLED. Hell, Isometric holds for ~5-10 sec at each angle is imho very nice builder for given exercise if you have problematic spots.

Smaller sets is actually one of the ways I manage to deal with progressions that are too big of a jump. What I actually do is something i call "Half the reps, twice the sets" meaning if my goal is 3x20 and it's HARD to do, I start of with 6x10 - it's same volume with less of an endurance component. And then I slowly increase the reps and lower the sets till hitting the goal of 3x20.

Rest is good and important, however I'm the kind of person who has not a lot of time, especially in bulk (meaning while normally during the day I can have easily 2-3 hours free, I actually get at most 1h free straight). That's why I love supersets! I do one exercise then "rest" while doing exercise for different muscle group.

Additional things to work on is recovery, accessory exercises (eg banded lat pulldowns), recovery, work on ROM, recovery, more endurance on easier variations (like jacknife pullups), recovery...

// EDIT:

There's another method that's mental but works: work to failure, then do a micro-rest that allows you to do a rep or two. Repeat until you reach double the reps you did to failure. So if you can do 8 reps max, you'd do 8 reps and then do short rest and force 1 rep till reaching 16 reps total. However this requires more rest days, but on the flip side it does build strength quite fast. It's not a nice method and I used it couple times when grinding on reps. It was effective for me, but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[beastnate123]

@yahleel 3.

You need to start your calisthenics journey with a focus on STRENGTH development.

To train strength, you gotta do few reps, long rests and few sets. And try to have perfect form on every rep.

 

[lostandfoundproverbs31]

@yahleel Highly doubt it matters beyond preference. I like 1. best - progressions & regressions.

If one set has your tank empty, one set is probably enough, anyway!

 

[ggg17]

@yahleel For the 3 (negatives), my opinion is that for some people it works fine, but generally if your muscle is not strong enough for positives, tendons and joins are not ready for them either. So one can be risking injury, as I experienced, as it's hard to determine how much is too much.

The other three are all good options including easier variations using assistance.

However, in case of your pullups, you don't need assistance or easier variation since you are already in a good training rep range. Just find out the number of reps you can do even across all sets, and then progress by increasing reps from the last set to the first.

Like this:

3,3,3

3,3,4

3,4,4

4,4,4

4,4,5

4,5,5

5,5,5

....

 

[deborah123]

@yahleel

What is more effective to build up towards a full workout? Let’s say my goal is to be able to do 3 sets of 10 pull ups and currently I can do only one set of 8-10 pull ups but then my arms are completely fatigued.

1) Easier variations like Australian pull up (10x3)

2) Jumping negatives (10x3)

3) Smaller sets with clean form (e.g 3x3)

4) Longer rests (e.g 10 pull ups, rest 10-15 min while training other body parts, then repeat)

None of these.

If you can already the the amount of reps you need like set of 10 pullups and that's your max but for only 1 set, then usually just scale back from failure by a rep to two and do the full workout:

Example:

• 8-8-8 then build up the reps from
• 8-8-8 to 9-8-8, 9-9-8, 9-9-9, then
• 10-9-9, 10-10-9, and then 10-10-10.

 

[jah138]

@yahleel Smaller sets. If you're too fatigued to do more sets than one after 8-10 pull ups, you went to failure or beyond. A good role of thumb is to so 1 rep lesson than you could or 80-90% of your max reps every set.

 

[bonrouge]

@jah138

If your too

*you're

Learn the difference here.

[sup]Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply

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[jah138]

@bonrouge Dear bot,
I know the difference. This is what's called a typo.

 

[blondie2]

@yahleel Use every option that you've listed as a complete workout.

 

[yahleel]

@blondie2 I would be absolutely destroyed afterwards, and towards the end, it would probably not be very effective anyway

 

[blondie2]

@yahleel Adjust the volume accordingly

 

[gerryg]

@yahleel For this specific case, I'd do 2 followed by 1. Short sets of the hard, specific exercise followed by volume of the easier, nonspecific exercise that still has carryover.

 

[aviel]

@yahleel Depends on your goal, as your goal is to increase the volume on your pull ups, 3 and 4 would be ideal. You could even do even longer rests if you're able to. Like, do 8-10 pull ups every two hours 3 to 4 times a day (and rest on the other).

 

[raymo]

@yahleel There are a lot of ways to approach it. If it works for you then it's probably fine.

The way I've generally tried to progress is to do the hardest version of an exercise I can do for at least 3 sets of 5. I'll then increase reps until I hit 10-12. At that point I'll try to increase difficulty.

I have on occasion done low rep high effort work but not very often. The way I've done that is with weight where I'd do sets of 3 until I have a much higher load than I could do for 5-10.

If you feel stuck at a progression you could try more odd ball things. I'd suggest just trying assist pullups or negatives in the 5-10 rep range. Maybe consider a greasing the groove method with the volume you want but spread out in smaller sets. You could also try adding other exercises that work the same muscles after pull-up work.

 

[dawn16]

@yahleel Look at how you would start at the gym and mirror that. Most gyms have assisted pullup machines and you can use the same principle to help you. Personally I just use some bands wrapped around the bar to give myself the assistance that I needed. Why bother with negatives when you can start out doing the full ROM with just less weight? Personally I had some tendon and shoulder issues when I got back into training so not straining those with negatives was important. Buy a 3 pack if bands on Amazon and use them to get your pullups. Now I do full sets of pullups with no pain and good form woth 15lbs of assistance (started at 40lbs).