I was fortunate enough to go to the fit expo in Los Angeles this weekend and as trying every protein shake known to man, I got to hear some of the past Mr. O's speak. During one question and answer session Dexter Jackson said something that made me think. I was hoping maybe we could talk about it a little. The question posed was about injury prevention and Dexter's answer surprised me a little. He said one of the biggest changes he has made as he has gotten older is that his routine is completely, or almost completely, machine based.
He said that using machines has gotten him the same great results but has been easier on his joints in some cases and overall he said it helped him to get less injuries overall. Now this seems like too much for me however in thinking about it I started thinking about my routine. In it I have phased out most of my machine work in favor of free weights. I wondered if maybe part of my change was influenced by the people I usually see using them. Because they are more non-threatening I usually see people who are either starting out or have vague fitness goals using them. I started thinking about the pros of machines vs the pros of free weights and whether or not I might be able to incorporate more machine work into my routine to get the overall best results.
Here are some of the pros of machines I thought of:
In some cases better isolation of the muscle being targeted
A safer way to push a muscle to failure, especially if one is lifting alone
In my experience, shorter wait times
Here are some pros of free weights:
Often use more muscle groups at once
Develop stability muscles which if you are lifting for more than pure aesthetics is important
Often a more natural range of motion
Some lifts just can't be done with machines
Badass factor
Anyway it got me thinking about trying to incorporate more machine use into my routine. I would love to hear what you guys think as well. How much do you incorporate them in your workouts? What are your reasons? Are there any other good points about either that you think need to also be stated? Any machine that you think everyone should be using or not using and why? Lastly I would repeat that I don't think that I would change to machines exclusively however I do think that adding more to my routine could really help in a few key areas of my muscle development.
@awesomelamb As long as you are using the tool to fulfill your purpose, then why the hell not. If someone refutes to use machines because of the social image, they need to reflect on their priorities in the gym.
I once tore my rotator cuff after a heavy bench day. I was adamant I could still work on my pressing in a different way. I found that doing a shoulder press with the calfe raise machine created the perfect pain free range of motion I needed to get the job done.
Theres also this machine that i love, the diverging lat pull down. I find this machine just hits the lower lats/lower trap so well and get a fantastic contraction overall.
@albart1971 I have had similar injuries to which using a machine has helped me work around it. Also I also love the diverging lat pulldown machine. Its one of those machines that not only does it target my lats and lower traps well but I also really enjoy using it.
@awesomelamb I heard that pros use machines to prevent tendon injuries, because gear lets the muscle grow faster than the tendons can support. I have no source though.
@awesomelamb Machines can definitely do things that free weights can't. They can provide resistance in an arc instead of a straight line, or have cam-actuated resistance profiles to fit the strength curves of muscle groups. Most of that stuff probably won't yield real world development differences though.
I don't like the use of machines for compound exercises due to the fact that they don't usually allow for a natural bar path for all lifters. They also can lead to some strange movement patterns being learned, or a lack of stabilizer muscle development. These can all lead to injury.
As a rule of thumb I'd say keep most of your multi-joint movements to free-weights, and leave the rest to preference.
@awesomelamb I think for pure BB purposes machines are definitely viable. The only thing that may be a pain is that the workout would take longer in order to hit every part of the muscle. Instead of just squats you would have to do maybe leg press, ham curls and something for your core.
Free weights just tend to get you more bang for your buck by hitting more muscles at a time. If you're lifting for pure strength or for some carryover to a sport then I think you should at least do Squat, DL, BP and OHP.
Free weights have been proven to be overall easier on the joints for legs. Closed chain movements are usually safer than open chain movements, and most machine movements are open chain while most barbell movements are closed chain.
Free weights also have a slightly higher muscle activation. That 1% difference is compounding interest, so you'll end up with better results for the same work.
However, there are some things only a machine will do, so they're 100% necessary for bodybuilding.
@fargonic Obviously not required, but my post wasn't really about it being required. It was about whether or not a routine might benefit from adding some machine work to it. An example of this might be in the case of my bench press. I bench alone and while I have no problem doing the roll of shame, if I want to do a few sets to failure and really exhaust my pecs it might be better to do it on a machine where failing is safer.
@awesomelamb Another pro to machines is that you might be able to move more weight since you don't have to worry about stabilizing. This could in turn result in more growth for your target muscle.
Personally I like using a wide variety of machines, usually after compound movements or just before as a preexhaust. For example, I might do leg extensions for 3x20 and then move on to BB squats. This way I can actually use less weight while squatting but still achieve a good burn and get my quads very tired out. I have been having lower back tightness if I try to squat too heavy for high reps, so this helps me avoid the pain.
Then I might finish with 5x20 on the leg extensions again and really get a good pump and burn, and I can easily lower or raise the weight, and also I can go to failure safely.
Oh! Another really good advantage to using machines is that you can easily do forced reps with a lifting partner, since they can easily pull the weights up for your concentric portion or even apply extra weight for the eccentric portion. I suppose this would fall under going to failure safely though.
@awesomelamb I've always done this: Barbells for deadlifts, squats (and a few other ancillary exercises) dumbells for pressing, curling. Machines for everything else.
@awesomelamb If you include plate-loaded machines, I probably use 60% machines and 40% free weights.
In addition to what you mentioned, machines give constant tension throughout the entire range of motion, where on some free-weight exercises, this isn't the case. Generally, I just do what works best to stimulate the muscle I am targeting. Since I have specific aesthetic goals in mind, I don't care how much weight I lift or what anyone else thinks about it, so the badass factor doesn't matter...
@awesomelamb I've found that using machines in some cases to be extremely effective in hitting muscular failure through different ranges of motion. The one legged squat comes to mind. If I perform the exercise free weight I can't fully contract the glutes and hams at the top, where on a smith machine I can lean into the bar and come all the way up. It's really great for going deeper into the burn without worrying about falling down as well. lol.
@awesomelamb i use machines for dam near everything just because i'm a lonely fuck. dont have to find someone to lift with me. i wouldn't mind a gym buddy, but i'm going to the gym, so i can be more comfortable FINDING other people.
it's only going to suck when i start maxing out machines and need to move to a different movement. i'm quite fat, and can nearly max out the leg extension/leg curl, but my legs still can't handle a full range of motion 0lb (so not even the bar) squat. i did about 8 a few days ago, and have been walking like i have peg legs for 3 days.
maxed out the lower back machine, luckily there's a sort of RDL machine so i dont have to worry about dropping the weight on anyone/anything.
