Are there any studies on building muscle with low protein diets, RDA or lower (<0.8 g/kg)?

[nogueira527]

Have there been any studies done on muscle protein synthesis in response to resistance training while consuming low quantities of protein, say in the range of the RDA (0.8 g/kg) or lower?

EDIT:

Doesn't answer the question, but indicative...

Prolonged Adaptation to a Low or High Protein Diet Does Not Modulate Basal Muscle Protein Synthesis Rates – A Substudy

The observation that post-absorptive whole-body protein balance as well as mixed muscle protein synthesis rates were not reduced on the low protein intake regimen seems to be in line with the observations in the full study, in which no changes in body composition were observed following 12 weeks of adaptation to a low or high protein intake with respect to body weight, FFM and fat mass. Apparently, prolonged adaptation to a low protein intake reduces whole-body protein turnover but does not seem to compromise whole-body protein balance, basal muscle protein synthesis rates or skeletal muscle mass maintenance. This study is the first to show that on a low protein diet (0.4 g/kg/d) body mass and fat free mass can be preserved by lowering whole-body turnover and maintaining basal muscle protein turnover rates.

Who wants to bet you can build muscle on 0.4 g/kg?

First to find a study that answers the question gets... an upvote.

 

[leahleigh]

@nogueira527 It shud be of your lean bodyweight and not overall body weight
If a person is 100kg / 220lbs with 30kg of body fat and has never lifted any weight
Then the protein amount with which he should be starting with is obviously not 220g let's just be very clear
Even for a 155lbs lean man starting 155lb protein is fucking alot
I'm around 75-78kg lean body weight but current body weight is 91kg as I'm bulking and have built good muscle mass working out for 3.5yrs
My max protein in a day is 140g and that's more than enough but I consume that amount everyday
Over the years it barely matters
So if I were to take protein only off my total body weight that would require anything like 200g protein and 200lbs in my overall body weight but that's not the case right
I'm recovering just perfectly from my hypertrophy and strength training workouts and getting stronger over weeks months etc
Hence don't think too much
Just hit 0.6-0.8lbs of body weight as ur protein and stick with that over time

 

[gladventist]

@leahleigh good response, the 1lb/bw is just a way for these companies to convince you that if you dont buy their supplements youll never make gains. sure 1lb/bw protein is probably optimal (according to the studies) but you will still get 90%+ gains eating a lot less than that.

if your sleep is shit, your training is shit, your calories are shit, etc. any one of those will affect your gains more than the difference of .8 vs .9 of protein will. eat healthy and consistently and youll probably get enough protein, just be conscious of not overdoing it and substituting sugary carbs for protein i.e. english muffin with jam and bagel for breakfast instead of eggs and toast, pasta for lunch instead of rice and ground beef, etc.

 

[leahleigh]

@gladventist Exactly
Like muscle building and getting bigger is already such a f*****g slow progress
Like as a natural lifter with normal genetics progress is actually slow and staying consistent matters more rather than 0.7g of protein or 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight
You still need to hit your muscles with alot of intensity which wil only develop over time etc
Getting stronger etc with sleep

 

[anne_l]

@nogueira527 The RDA recommendations are the MINIMUMS to maintain a positive nitrogen balance in healthy, young adults. In other words, that’s the minimum protein your body needs for normal protein turnover. If you are active, in any way, you need more just to maintain the status quo. You cannot build muscle unless you eat significantly above the RDA. If you eat less than the RDA you will lose muscle even if you are sedentary.

 

[dawn16]

@anne_l Why do you need more protein if you are more active? Protein in itself is not the preferred fuel source for activity. Carbs and fats are.

 

[anne_l]

@dawn16 Exercise causes muscle damage that needs to be repaired. Protein recommendations for endurance athletes can be as high as strength athletes.

 

[jenny5]

@nogueira527 Just eat your protein man. 0.8/lb

 

[dragonfruit10]

@nogueira527 Your results are essentially diet permitting. If you hit the minimum protein in at least 3 meals then it allows results.

If you go much higher than that it isn't necessarily going to get you any more results.

Hot take but a lot of advice online is that "diet is the most important part" and I don't agree with this. If someone is eating nothing but Mcdonalds and ice cream or someone is eating 100% clean whole foods it isn't gunna make much if any difference.

Calories for tiny surplus - Tick

Protein at least 0.7g per pound - Tick.

At least 3 meals to spread it out - Tick.

Now your diet gives you the permit to allow results

Training is by far the most important part of this equation.

 

[maybeitsme]

@nogueira527 Look at all the studies on protein in hypertrophy - most of the baselines and control groups for studies showing higher protein for better results are around that range.

 

[anne_l]

@maybeitsme OP is asking if 0.8g\kg in enough, not lbs

 

[maybeitsme]

@anne_l And? Many of the studies have the control groups or a group in that range.

 

[anne_l]

@maybeitsme What range are you referring to? It’s not clear from your comments.

 

[maybeitsme]

@anne_l There’s no value in continuing this thread if you can’t discern the basics from context in a simple scenario.

 

[cv5]

@anne_l He’s saying that for studies which show higher proteins are superior, the control groups protein intake was about .8/kg. Hence implying that higher than that range is better as the intervention group >.8/kg had better gains. He’s being a dick about it though by blaming you not understanding when really he should work on his explanation skills. Just because something is clear in YOUR head, doesn’t mean you explained it well.

 

[junior59]

@nogueira527 what exactly are you trying to get out of this question? Minimum effective dose? Or just some weird thought experiment?

 

[nogueira527]

@junior59 Scientific curiosity.

 

[junior59]

@nogueira527 Let me rephrase- what question are you trying to answer?

Will you still build muscle on 0.8g/kg of protein? Likely yes

If you go low protein to the point where your body has a protein deficiency will you build muscle? Probably not

Maybe this video would be helpful/relevant

 

[nogueira527]

@junior59 Yeah, a) can you build on 0.8 and b) what is the lowest any study has been able to show muscle gain on (all assuming caloric surplus).

 

[anne_l]

@nogueira527 No, you can’t build muscle at that low of a protein intake. That’s like asking if you can add a room to a house but you don’t want to buy any more bricks. You can build the extra room, but you’ll have to steal bricks from somewhere else in the house.