Calling all victims of Simple and Sinister. (mini-survey for my own curiosity)

[firewraith]

Disclaimer: The first several paragraphs are me thanking /r/kettlebell and gushing over how I'm motivated to work out again. Skip to the bottom for the real reason I've called you all here today.

First off, I want to thank /r/kettlebell for introducing me to Pavel and motivating me to start Simple and Sinister. After leaving the Active Duty Army in January, struggling with school, work, and family crisis after family crises, it's been really hard to find time to prioritize physical fitness.

A few weeks ago I made another go at it. I work full time, have a 37 mile one way commute, as well as going to school full-time. My wife works full time as well, so between money being tight and me wanting to see my wife for more than 10 minutes a day, I decided that any working out I will be doing will be close to as home as possible for at least the next several months. I tried to program something with a single 35lb Go-Fit KB that I have (it's not that bad; at least it's not one of those concave ones). My whole military career was in a SOF unit, and as a result I was exposed to a lot of great fitness resources ( that I'm very thankful for), i.e. Crossfit, Gym Jones, Military Athlete, Wendler, Rippetoe, etc. so I had been exposed to kettlebells in the past, however I am by no means an expert nor a super athlete.

Anyway, I skeptically bought the kindle version of Simple and Sinister, and love it. In my opinion, what makes it so awesome is the detailed instructions for how to progress. Start exactly at x weight doing y amount of work. Once you can do y amount of work in z amount of time, increase x weight by 50%, rinse and repeat. The first day, I'd be lying if I said my ass was not successfully kicked. However, I was really surprised how quickly my body remembered it's conditioning. I had really expected to be in much worse shape, but after a couple of days I was finishing the workout in under 7 minutes with a 16kg kb. Ready to move up in weight, yay!

So anyway, thanks for reading this far through my mini bragging session. Finding a good program, not starting out too heavy or with too much volume (which for me is the fast track to not carrying through with it), and having clear benchmarks for progression has motivated the shit out of me. Simple and Sinister isn't magic, it isn't going to turn anyone into a professional athlete, and isn't the answer to all of my fitness questions. But it does exactly what it says it's going to do, no asterisk involved, and I think there's something to be said for that these days.

I set some fitness goals for the coming 6 months to a year, including taking S&S to 32kg, checking to see how KB training will translate over to a max Barbell DL, Squat, and OHP, as well as running a 50k in late 2015. So once again, thank you /r/kettlebell for existing

Now, for my little survey. There's a lot of qualitative feedback regarding the program, which is valuable, but if /r/kettlebell would be willing to contribute I think it'd be nice to have everyone's results for S&S consolidated in once place. There's a lot of people who kind of fetishize kettlebells as the answer to everything, and a lot of people who think they're pretty much worthless, so I think it'd be cool to have clear feedback and numbers for what a simple KB program can do. So now, for those of you that have done Simple and Sinister:

1.Describe your fitness background prior to S&S, and your fitness level when starting S&S. What was your goal?

2.What was your approximate height and weight when starting S&S, and when finishing (If you don't know, just give us a general idea of where you were at before and after, and any changes in body composition)?

3.What KB did you start with?

4.What are you currently using (or did you finish with)?

5.How long did it take to progress from one weight to the next?

6.What caveats are there to your scenario? (example: S&S was an accessory to your strength routine, you were also running 10 miles a week, etc)

7.What is your current performance at (example: Doing S&S with a 24kg KB and completing 100 one-handed swings and 10 turkish get ups in 12 minutes.) Feel free to mention if you've noticed improvements in areas (if you're 5k time has gone down, if you're dead lift has improved, if you've developed super powers and a permanent erection, etc.)

8.Finally, if you are no longer doing S&S, let us know why you moved on; whether it was you progressed to another KB program to meet your goal, moved onto something else entirely, or life just got in the way. If you're still doing it, let us know what your plan is for the future.

 

[dawn16]

@firewraith Sure, I'll bite.

1. A. I did 3 sports in high school and BJJ/running sporadically through college. No real lifting experience but lots of sprinting, distance running, and bodyweight exercises through track, cross country, and wrestling. I'd had a resting heart rate of in the low 40's in high school.
   
   B. When I started S&S, I occasionally jogged, lifted fairly regularly, and did bodyweight stuff regularly. I had also worked with kettlebells before, 16 kg then 24 kg lbs for swings, TGU's, C&P, snatches, etc.
2. 6'1", ~190-195, starting and ending. Less fat more muscle however.
3. I started S&S (just this program, not kettlebells in general) with a 24 kg bell. I did not measure time to complete exercises. If I had to guess, it would be in the 12-13 minute range.
4. I ended on a 32 kg bell
5. A few months to jump bells. More restricted by getting a larger bell more than progress.
6. S&S was mixed in with other kb work like C&P, also bodyweight work, and not necessarily done regularly, let alone every day.
7. Current performance isn't peak performance for me. Peak performance was around 11 minutes for 100 one handed swings and 10 TGU's, all 32 kg. One effect I noticed was an improvement in my deadlift. Also, all around cardiovascular, lungs, and sustained effort improvement. TGU's and C&P's are good for my shoulders, but I already knew that.
8. I vary my exercise quite a bit depending on what equipment I have available to me and the season. I've been traveling a lot, so no kb work. I plan to do more running and yoga in the near future because I've been hard on my body lately and I just feel like taking a different approach. I've never doing yoga as a serious thing in and of itself. It's always just been stretching on the side.

 

[dawn16]

@firewraith

1.Describe your fitness background prior to S&S, and your fitness level when starting S&S. What was your goal?

Started S&S in Dec 2013. Kinda sorta half-assing Rite of Passage with a 16kg for about three years prior to that. Initially, I wanted to lose weight. However, back in May 2012, I tried to haul a couch up to my second floor of my house and failed. I switched from generic "losing weight" goal to getting strong as fuck.

2.What was your approximate height and weight when starting S&S, and when finishing (If you don't know, just give us a general idea of where you were at before and after, and any changes in body composition)?

6'8. Started S&S in Dec 2013 at 290lbs. Finished in May 2014 at 240lbs.

I was skinnier but had no muscle shape or definition anywhere. Tiny triceps. Skinny forearms. Slopping shoulders.

3.What KB did you start with?

16kg

4.What are you currently using (or did you finish with)?

32kg

5.How long did it take to progress from one weight to the next?

I want to count my years of dicking around prior to S&S. I would say 3.5 years to go from 16kg to 32kg.

6.What caveats are there to your scenario? (example: S&S was an accessory to your strength routine, you were also running 10 miles a week, etc)

Purely, S&S from 12/2013 to 5/2014. In April, I started setting new fitness goals and realized that I would had add to or replace my routine.

7.What is your current performance at (example: Doing S&S with a 24kg KB and completing 100 one-handed swings and 10 turkish get ups in 12 minutes.) Feel free to mention if you've noticed improvements in areas (if you're 5k time has gone down, if you're dead lift has improved, if you've developed super powers and a permanent erection, etc.)

• Powerlift 0.5/1/2/3 plates for reps
• 100 push-ups narrow or wide, weighted.
• 32kg Press for reps
• 24kg TGUs for reps
• Double 24kg Swings 5x10
• 24kg Front Squats 3x3
• 24kg Rite of Passage
• 16kg Bottoms-up Rite of Passage

I feel strong as fuck. I have muscles where I didn't have before. I have veins popping around my upper body. I went from flat ass to beginner glutes. My quads and calves are trying to bust out of my jeans all day. All of my XL shirts fit me like a douchebag going to the club. My chest pushes back, not soft marshmellowy creme like before. Despite my waist remaining the same, I have gotten back up to 270lbs, neck from 17 to 20" and general thickness all around. (I think I am most proud of my forearms going from 11.5 to 13" from all the grip training.)

Yet, I am so weak and still so small. Shoulders, so tiny. Lats--microscopic. Back--you couldn't even tell I even lift. Smh.

8.Finally, if you are no longer doing S&S, let us know why you moved on; whether it was you progressed to another KB program to meet your goal, moved onto something else entirely, or life just got in the way. If you're still doing it, let us know what your plan is for the future.

I moved on to StrongLifts 5x5 with some KB and Strongman accessories.

S&S didn't fail me. It laid the foundation to everything I want to do now and in the future. I felt like because of my build, I wasn't going to get stronger shoulders from TGUs so I had to swap those out with Presses. S&S was HIGHLY successful and I would recommend it almost without fail to anyone who wants to pick up a kettlebell.

 

[dawn16]

Shoulders, lats, back... You should do pullups. Lots of 'em. Bodyweight, weighted, everything. That's how I ended up with a back and shoulders. I used to be more on the bean pole side of things. I'd imagine snatches, deadlifts, and power cleans help also.

Also, I did read your reply above and did note that you're up around 270. That's heavy for pull ups, I know. But doable, I think.

 

[dawn16]

Yep, I know it is going to be harder to do pull-ups at 270. But no one said this would be easy.

 

[tctruongson]

@firewraith 1.Background/Goal

• Several years of martial arts (karate, BJJ) in high school, some crossfit (independently, not at a gym) in college, casual rock climbing, calisthenics and some ring work. Never extremely fit but never especially out of shape, dabbled in all these programs for a year or so each. Goal with S&S was just to get stronger and proficient with the tool.

2.Body composition before and after

• 5'11, fluctuated between 185-200 lb. Some muscle, some extra fat, just in the middle. No huge body composition changes after a year of S&S, though I have noticed lots of new muscles popping up around my ribs and core, and my biceps are bigger.

3.What KB did you start with?

• Started with just a 16kg, picked up a 24kg about 3 or 4 months later, then a 32kg about 6 months after that.

4.What are you currently using (or did you finish with)?

• Currently transitioning from 24kg to 32kg, about 50/50 right now.

5.How long did it take to progress from one weight to the next?

• Between 3-6 months.

6.Caveats/extenuating circumstances

• I modified the warmup slightly - I just do 3x5 goblet squats with my swing weight, and whatever random calisthenics I feel like doing for a few minutes. No haloes or bridges after the first 6 months of my year of S&S. I only do the two post-workout stretches once or twice a week. I now average 3-4 sessions a week, but there was a 4 month stretch this spring where I only missed a handful of days at all, probably did 29-30 sessions a month. That was when I was transitioning from 16kg to 24kg, and then improving my time on the 24kg.

7.Current performance

• I'm doing 3x5 goblet squats, 10x10 swings and 10x1 getups in 20 minutes. Half with 24kg, half with 32kg on all exercises. A year ago when I started it was program as written, took 30 minutes, and just 16kg. So in a year I've cut my time by 30% and soon will have doubled my kb weight.

 

[nhope]

@firewraith 1.
It was solid. I did a fair amount of running, lifting and kettlebell. I did the swing and press ladder for a month or so before starting. I played football and college and then got into CrossFit and other functional fitness things.

2.
6'1 220lbs to about 6'1 215. I'm still doing it. Maybe 2% bf drop. I'm losing some muscle mass, but mostly due to knee surgery and not being able to squat or deadlift how I would like.

3.
I only have a 32kg so that is what I use

6.
It's an accessory right now. I have been doing it recently since I had knee surgery and can't bend my knee (or don't want to). I use a knee pad for the injured knee on get ups. Less stress than running and more fun than rowing or biking.

7.
150 swings one hand swings (10 sets of 15) and 20 get ups in about 17 minutes. I probably need a heavier bell.

8.
S&S is great and I'll probably keep doing it. Especially during finals, being able to smoke myself in 20 minutes or so to the level I see fit is great. I do a lot of snatch and clean and press as well. I am hoping to move to either a 40kg or 48kg bell, but I will need to be strategic about it.

Edit: not sure why the 7 isn't showing up. Never mind.

 

[dawn16]

@firewraith

1. fitness background - wrestled and played soccer during HS, boxed and did BJJ during undergrad, all the while lifting weights. After undergrad trimmed down the amount of time I was spending on sports (lifting, conditioning, and practicing take lots of time), got into powerlifting (only needs the lifting part). After realizing that I was getting slightly out of breath carrying my kids up two flights of stairs, I added it at the end of my workouts as my conditioning.
2. 5'10", 260. Approximately the same after (didn't adjust diet, body comp. wasn't a goal, just wanted to be in shape).
3. 32kg (I was already deadlifting 600+, so I figured I fell into the "strong" category Pavel gave).
4. Still 32kg, kettlebells are expensive.
5. n/a, though it took me about two months to get to the time goals where I would progress, if I wanted to spend the money.
6. I do S&S after very heavy lifting - normally the 5/3/1 program but with varying assistance.
7. 100 1-handed swings in 4:30, 1 minute of rest, then 10 TGUs in 5:00, so the whole program in 10:30 (this is on days where I didn't deadlift or squat just prior - on those days I barely hit the goals of 5 minutes for the swings and 10 for the TGUs that Pavel lists in the book). I feel like I can get through my normal workouts quicker too - I recover faster from lifting and can go on to the next set - I also no longer breathe heavily while carrying both kids and a backpack up several flights of stairs. I guess that's what work capacity is...
8. I'm still doing it, and can see myself doing it indefinitely (but maybe buying the 48kg eventually). I may ease off on it some in favor of some boxing workouts if I ever pick back up on boxing some day (a gym opened near me recently, trying to work it back into the budget and schedule), but I think I'll always have at least two S&S days per week.

 

[kyfisher1]

@firewraith I like this idea, so I'll reply.
1. When I started S+S I had about 8 years prior random lifting experience and several years of kettlebell experience. I did a few S+S workouts with a 24kg but basically started the program with the 32kg.
2. 6'0" 173 pounds... weight stays fairly constant depending on how tight my diet is. My obliques tightened up and shoulders rounded out a bit.
3. 32kg.
4. 40kg. I can meet the simple standard more or less whenever I want to and I can complete all the reps on 1h swings and TGUs with the 40kg in about 35 minutes.
5. About two months.
6. No caveats, I did S+S about 4x/week for two months before switching it up, mainly due to cold weather.
7. See above.
8. For some reason, I am not able to press my 32kg cast iron bell on my left side, so I have switched to a Dan John Easy Strength type routine to incorporate near daily pressing. It really bothers me that I can't make this lift for some reason, though I can easily do so with my right.

 

[dawn16]

@firewraith

1. Background & Goal - Barbelled for a couple of years. Did Starting Strength and some intermediate programs. Goal was to get out of the gym and spend less time training and more time on other pursuits.
2. Height & Weight - 39yo. 5'4, 150lbs. Roughly 21-22%BF. No change in body composition after several months of S&S.
3. Starting KB weight - 24kg for swings, 12kg TGUs, but went to 16kg for TGUs after few sessions.
4. What are you currently using (or did you finish with)? - 24kg for swings, and I can do 20kg for TGUs. Could probably do 24kg for TGUs but haven't bothered with them in a while.
5. How long did it take to progress from one weight to the next? - 24kg is my heaviest KB.
6. What caveats are there to your scenario? - Shitty diet and I didn't bother doing one-handed swings. 2H all the way. I am seated and sedentary pretty much the whole day and have a 1-hour drive to work/back.
7. What is your current performance at - I plateaued at completing the swings in 5:20. Resting HR got down to around 50bpm (just took it now at 52bpm, seated). I wore my HRM and got this graph about a month into the program. Haven't been back in the gym but I'm guessing all my lifts are down.
8. Finally, if you are no longer doing S&S, let us know why you moved on - Got bored with it. Did a couple of rounds of the swing & press program with the 24kg. After a 450 swing/60 press workout S&S seems like nothing. I'm interested in doing some GS style stuff if I can find a coach but will probably go for bodyweight workouts next year (/r/bodyweightfitness basic program)