Calorie deficit -> Losing muscle mass. Calorie surplus -> Gaining fat. What to do?

[growingchristian16]

Hello all.

According to calculators my (aproximately) maintenance calorie intake is about 2200kcal (175cm at 75kg).

I have a little bit of fat, I'd say I'm like the 16-19% percentage guy in this pic

https://imgur.com/a/2AUerzZ

maybe a little bit more but definitely not like the next guy.

So I tried to lose a bit of fat going down to 1800kcal, it worked for a bit. Then I dropped it to 1700 to keep losing the remaining fat but the fat stayed the same and I just lost muscle mass and strength, but not really that much weight, weird.

So after months of deficit I tried to gain muscle again because, well, I wanted to do cool calisthenic things and I couldn't advance if I was in deficit, right? So I pumped it to 2100-2200kcal daily, which is my maintenance, and zig-zagged it with two days of about 2500-2600 kcal for a surplus.

Well, nope, I thought the surplus was quite small (two days of +400 weekly would be like +115 daily) but I'm seeing myself gaining fat. Of course one explanation is my metabolism adapted to the lower intake, but even with that the surplus would be what, +200/300? I didn't start it too long ago (like 3 weeks ago max) and I already think my fat is more visible.

Any suggestions? Checked:

- Enough sleep.

- Enough protein.

- Low fries/sugar intake (but I'm weak, I'm not saying no to my chocolate bar as long as it's not more than 100-150kcal).

My training sessions are 3 days of recommended routine with 4 series instead of 3 for the three pairs.

 

[dusgfmo]

@growingchristian16

According to calculators

tl;dr: Calculator is wrong.

Then I dropped it to 1700 to keep losing the remaining fat but the fat stayed the same and I just lost muscle mass and strength, but not really that much weight, weird.

Simple but, I hope, obvious observation: If you are not losing weight, then you are not in a caloric deficit.

Let me say that again: You have not lost (that much) weight. That means at that point in time, for whatever reason, you were not in (that much of) a caloric deficit.

It helps to think about everything the other way round: Calculators are guidelines. The way you determine whether you are in deficit, or surplus, is by looking at what your weight is doing. When your weight mostly remains where it is at 1700, then you are at maintenance (or very near that), because you are maintaining your weight at your current calorie intake. That is the definition. If a calculator tells you differntly, then the calculator is wrong.

You have not lost as much at 1700 as you expected? Calculator was wrong. We know that already. And everything resolves itself from there.

With a deficit of 500 cal a day, you should lose about 0.5 kg a week, 2 kg (or more) a month. If you don't? Then you are not at a 500 cal a day deficit. It is that simple.

So after months near maintenance calories I tried to gain muscle again

FTFY.

So I pumped it to 2100-2200kcal daily, which is my maintenance

If you hardly lost weight at 1700, then... no, it's probably not. Chances are that you are above maintenance on normal days, and a lot above maintenance on your "spike it up" days. The results of that should be unsurprising.

Of course one explanation is my metabolism adapted to the lower intake, but even with that the surplus would be what, +200/300?

If your maintenance calories are around 1700, then that would mean you are about 500 to 900 cal over that every day.

So the first thing you can try, would be to establish your actual maintenance calories. For the stalling progress, as some people already mentioned, first you might take care of the protein qutestion. And then you can also try having a deload week, if you didn't try that already.

If that doesn't work, then one might consider visiting a doctor you trust in order to check the usual suspects (blood sugar, thyroid hormone, testosterone, cortisol etc.), in order to see if everything is in order on the sugar and hormone front.

 

[xxusaf1rexx]

@dusgfmo This. Hit every point. Don't take it personally OP but ultimately there is no magic here and 99.9% of the time, there is a very logical reason for these things. Go check out RPStrength. Mike Israetel does a video "Nutrition Made Simple" which covers every single one of these topics, an easy to understand/digest interpretation and exactly how to utilize them properly. I have never found a better source than this that literally anyone can understand (and Mike is incredibly captivating/entertaining). Good luck OP.

 

[freezbuy]

@xxusaf1rexx Hey, is the youtube channel: Renaissance Periodization right?
The videos are called healthy eating made simple with different parts. Is this right?

 

[xxusaf1rexx]

@freezbuy That's the one. Honestly the absolute best way to have a great understanding.

 

[bmp444]

@dusgfmo He said he lost fat at 1800 and then lost muscle mass at 1700, so he WAS losing weight at that deceiver just not the type of weight he wanted to lose.

 

[neroway]

@bmp444 How is op quantifying what is fat vs muscle in any sort of accurate way?

 

[bmp444]

@neroway I mean what do you expect some random Reddit dude to do? Go get a dexa scan every week? It’s generally common sense with the eye test man. He also said he lost strength, which would be indicative of a caloric deficit or overtraining, but his routine doesn’t seem like overtraining.

 

[neroway]

@bmp444 Thats exactly my point, he has no way to quantify what he's seeing.

 

[bmp444]

@neroway Yeah but then what’s he supposed to do to quantify it? You’re not really offering a solution here. Is he supposed to just check the scale and make sure he’s losing weight until he looks like a bag of bones because he’s losing a shit ton of muscle in the process? Do you not believe it’s possible to be skinny fat or something?

I think he should try your other advice first (increasing protein and checking the usual suspects) to prevent him from becoming a chubby twig. Then once he’s all good there if he’s not losing weight at a sufficient pace, cut more calories.

 

[only__j]

@dusgfmo You seem knowledgeable, so a short question. I'm skipping a meal and doing exercises everyday for a month, yet I stay at the same weight. I explained it with muscle mass weighting more than fat, is that a true statement or not?

(I went from 10 pushups to 30+, so I'm definitely getting stronger/fitter)

 

[marija321]

@only__j Not the other poster, but yes, muscle is denser than fat. In one month there might not be a huge difference in any case.

 

[only__j]

@marija321 Figured as much, just feels discouraging to see no visible changes after a month haha. I'll keep at it

 

[marija321]

@only__j Also, not sure if this was your question, but skipping a meal doesn't necessarily put you in caloric deficit. It varies alot from person to person, but basal caloric consumption can be 1700-2200/day for example. The exercise you do is probably worth another 200/day. It's still fairly easy to consume that many calories in two meals.

I've found good results using tools, like a bathroom scale to weigh in every day, a kitchen scale, a sport watch that measures calories, apps like cronometer that measure macros, and recipe sites like 'eatthismuch' which create meal plans to fit your goals.

It takes some getting used to, but it's a self education process that takes time and effort to learn. The result is having better reflexes when it comes to craving...

If you can manage to plan meals and count calories effectively to achieve a 10% daily deficit, you'll lose weight slowly and consistently. If your diet is relatively high protein you can put on muscle at the same time... Especially as a beginner.

 

[only__j]

@marija321 Just weirds me out because I was at maintenance before starting to skip the meal, aka I wasn't gaining weight. I don't have the motivation yet to weigh every single meal, specially self cooked ones tend to be annoying to be put in. But I'll take a look at the website, albeit I'll have to convince my SO hah

 

[aggeliki96]

@only__j You just might be compensating for the one missing meal by over eating during your other meals, without even realizing it.

 

[only__j]

@aggeliki96 I always ate a single bun for breakfast and a single plate for dinner which my BF serves, hasn't changed since. Only thing that has changed that I cut my bun sideways instead of vertical now to have less toppings on it. I even weighted them on the first week and they were as much as half the toppings of used to.

I also cut out majority of sweets after I saw how much one bar or such actually has, so I don't really know where the compensating could come from. I'll just observe it for a while, if it doesn't change till Christmas I'll track for a while again

What could have happened, we had 2-3 weeks where we ate out much more than usual and could be that it was the same timeframe and thus a reason for stopping tracking, so yeah. I knew that eating out has more calories, but wasn't aware how much of a difference it actually makes

 

[marija321]

@only__j It's really interesting to experiment with, but given the practical limits for most people.. Like eating together.. Not always reasonable time wise.

What I've found to be the most noticeable, hunger craving wise, is what happens when I stop sugar. Low carb, but not quite keto, seems to give me more stable energy, and less 'carb coma'.

Besides that more predictable energy level, I feel like it's separated out in my mind eating for my health, versus eating for comfort. My subconscious now knows a (whole foods) meal of protein and fat will give me more energy over a longer period than carbs... Way less glycemic yo-yo.

I also notice, some stress in the day, some disappointment, bad surprise... Up come the comfort carb cravings!

 

[shivani0010]

@only__j Measure yourself weekly take pics monthly

Much better than the scsle

 

[inandoutoflove23]

@only__j I'm in the same boat as you, keep going! Don't get discouraged.

I have been at it for the last 6 months and just now starting to see visible differences, the scale has slowly gone down (I was at 35% bf when I started so did have a lot to lose - measured with one of those electrical things at the gym so hopefully fairly accurate)

But I am starting to see some definition around my arms, shoulders and obliques. Like you I am getting stronger as I am slowly increasing reps/harder exercise variations. E.g. able to do 2x pull ups, before I couldn't do a scapular pull without a resistance band, and 3x 10 full push ups up from sets of 5 wall push ups.

It will happen, just trust in the process and keep going!