Chest dip progression for those who want to skip negatives and have no bands available

[icemasterpt]

I was browsing through youtube and bodyweight training sites and could not find a dip/chest dip progression that didn't use negatives, bands or the tricep bench dip. So I though it would be good to write at least one tutorial that has you progressing to the chest dip without accessories and minimizing injury risk

Like in the pullup progression many beginners get wrist, bicep and elbow pain with the negative reps the dip has the potential to damage shoulder muscles if you are unable to control the negative or limit the bottom range of motion.

So here is the progression model which is based on estimation on how much load is pushed in various exercises.

WHOLE ARTICLE PASTED HERE:

Chest dip progression guide - starting from zero

Chest dips are fun! But with the dips we are facing the same issues as with the pullup. You are lifting about 93% of your bodyweight which makes it too hard for beginners. You will need sufficient tricep and chest strength to be able to perform these.

Normal dip progressions have you do band assisted dips, negatives or tricep bench dips. These work but they all have their downsides. Negatives are not generally good because of the increased injury risk. I would not recommend negatives for beginners since they have not been able to learn the movement pattern. Doing the movement pattern in both directions with good form and lighter load is always a safer option. Tricep bench dip is not a very good option since the positioning of the hands is behind the body and might cause shoulder pain for some. Also it does not develop the chest strength required for the chest dip. And last not everyone has a selection of bands they can attach to their dip setup.

How to get started

First step would be to get your standard push-up to a decent level. With standard push-up you are pushing about 73% of your bodyweight. So we are getting closer to the strength level required for the dip which was 95% of bodyweight. With 12reps of standard push-up your 1RM is somewhere in the range of 1x bodyweight. So when you can do 10reps of standard push-up with good controlled form you can start working with your dip progression.

For this purpose we are going to start with a leg assisted chair seat dip. The movement pattern is close to the actual chest dip. This is superior compared to the normal tricep bench dip which has your hands placed behind your body and works mainly triceps. Standard height of a chair seat is around 45cm and suitable depth for this dip variation would be palms at your lower chest height. For some the standard chair height might not be suitable. If you are shorter the range of motion is too deep and if you are taller the range of motion is too shallow. Most likely you need to make some minor adjustments to make this exercise safe to progress. If the chair seat is too high for you use something to elevate your butt. For example few pillows, books or whatever you can find. If the chair is too low you can elevate the seat with books or push-up handles. The rule is that you should be comfortable in the bottom position so you can safely train close to failure and don’t risk injury. For example for me the standard chair seat height is slightly too high so I use a weight plate to elevate myself to a proper height.

Progression

1. Chair seat dips (leg assisted)

Pre-requirement: 10 Push-ups to get 6 reps

Actual load ˜ 0.75x Bodyweight

Sit down between two chair seats with straight or bent legs. Perform dips like you would do them in a dip station with hands on the side and slightly in front of your body. Push your hips back and lean slightly forward to get more chest activation or this will turn into a tricep exercise. Make sure you are comfortable in the bottom position of this movement and limit the bottom range of motion if needed.

2. Chair seat dips with legs elevated

Pre-requirement: 10 leg assisted chair seat dips to get 6-8 reps

Actual load ˜ 0.8x Bodyweight

Use a small step or something similar to elevate your legs. 15 to 20cm (6 to 8 inches) elevation is a good starting point. Use slightly bent legs. If you use straight legs or your legs are elevated too high you won’t be able to lean forward in the bottom position. This changes the mechanics of this exercise and load the triceps more instead of chest. Form in the example video is pretty good but you need to put your hips back more for better chest activation.

3. Chest dip

Pre-requirement: 10 Chair seat dips legs elevated to get 6 reps

Actual load ˜ 0.93x Bodyweight

When you are strong enough to do at least 10 reps of the Chair seat dips with legs elevated you can start working with your standard chest dip. Use a gip that is slightly wider than shoulders. If the grip is too narrow you will not be able to activate the chest well. Check out the article "Dips everywhere" to find places at your house to do dips.

https://twoworkouts.blogspot.com/2020/10/dips-everywhere-best-places-to-do-dips.html

4. Weighted Chest dip

Pre-requirement: 8 Chest dips before you start to add weight

Use a dipping belt or a backpack to load this exercise. Weighted dips have potential to be loaded heavily if you take care of not going too deep in the bottom position. I suggest you adjust your setup in a safe way that the weights touch some object when you have reached proper depth. For this purpose I have been using a weight plate below my dip stand so that the weights touch the weight plate on the bottom of each rep. This prevents me from not going any deeper than needed and keeps the range of motion constant.

4.1 Ring dips and weighted ring dips

(Ring dip)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XTUetY5IhA (Weighted kneeling ring dip)

Pre-requirement: 10-12 Chest dips before starting this variation

If you don't have access to weights you can use gymnastic rings or suspension trainers to do dips. It's recommended that you first master the standard chest dip before attempting the ring dip. Adjust the ring height so that your legs slightly touch the floor in the bottom position. This will prevent you from going too deep and protect your shoulders. In the beginning you can slighly limit the range of motion in the bottom half of the movement if you are unable to keep stable form all the way down.

When doing the weighted variation adjust the setup in a way that you don't go any deeper than needed. If you are using a weight vest you can do kneeling chest dips where your knees touch the floor in the bottom position of each rep. If you use a dip belt make sure the weights touch the floor in the bottom position. This way you can safely progress to heavier weights.

5. Acher dip (Assisted one arm dip)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2ARuJpEHKA

Pre-requirement: 10 Chest dips to get 5 reps if the assisting arm is close to the body

Actual load ˜ 1..1.3x Bodyweight if the assisting arm is close

or

8 Weighted Chest Dips with 0.4x bodyweight added to get 5 if the assisting arm is wide.

Actual load ˜ 1.4x Bodyweight when assisting arm is wide

Archer dip is a great way to add resistance to your dips if you don't have access to weights. You can use a small object such as a footstool or a box to limit the range of motion in the bottom position so you can train to failure without the risk of shoulder injury. Depending on your strength and skill level start with the assisting arm closer to your body and progress towards a wider grip.

6. Weighted archer dip

Pre-requirement: 8 Archer dips before starting to add weight.

Using weights with the archer dip allows you to reach high loads on the chest using minimal amounth of added load. Use a dipping belt or a backpack to load this exercise. Use small weight increases of 1-2lbs at a time. Work up to 8 reps before adding weight.

Thoughts on progression

If you find that you are not getting the required reps when switching over to the next exercise you can do two things. Work up to a higher rep range. So instead of 10 reps try to get 12 before moving to the harder exercise variation. Another way would be to micro load the existing exercise with some additional weight (few kg/lbs) and get the reps up to 10 with added weight before moving up in exercise.

Training tempo

One thing I need to address before moving to the example workouts. When doing any exercise you generally want to use “2-1-2” tempo. Which means the rep should take about 2 seconds on the way down, 1 second hold at the bottom and 2 seconds on the way up. Usually this translates to something like “1-0.5-1” tempo in real life since we don’t really use a timer. This ensures that you don’t cheat in your repetitions and reach the proper depth at the bottom. If you just drop yourself to the bottom position and quickly bounce back up you will not get much training stimulus and the progression model presented above will not work. Cheated reps won’t get you real results. So keep that in mind.

Chest workouts with dip progressions

Let’s take a look how you would structure push workouts around your training routine. For some general guidelines you should aim for 8-12 sets weekly with most of the work done in the 6-12 rep range.

Two workouts a week

4-6 sets per workout when training 2 times a week. With one workout done in 6-10rep range and another workout in higher rep range doing a push-up regression or chest dip progression

Example A One exercise per workout (8sets weekly)

Workout A

4x6-10reps Push-up progression

Workout B

4x6-10 Chest dip progression

Example B Two exercises per workout (10 sets weekly)

Workout A

3x6-10reps Assisted One Arm Push-up

2x8-12reps Decline Push-up

Workout B

3x6-10reps Chest dips (weighted or bodyweight)

2x8-12reps Decline Push-up

One workout a week

8-12 sets when training chest once per week. First exercises being in a lower rep range 6-10 and second or third exercise in 8-12 rep range.

Example A Two exercises per workout (8 sets weekly)

4x6-10reps Assisted One Arm Push-up

4x8-12reps Chest Dip progression

Example B Three exercises per workout (10 sets weekly)

3x6-10reps Assisted One Arm Push-up

4x6-10reps Chest dips (weighted or bodyweight)

3x8-12reps Decline Push-up

Check out the chest workout planner here with exercise examples, videos and adjust the number of weekly sets.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15z8YPMm9zCLBuPjrFedJS_NZIEXtWBsEB3OWF2T-E8A/copy?usp=sharing

For a complete push workout you would also do a few sets of overhead pressing (pike push-up, wall supported handstand push-up etc.) or lateral raises and additional direct tricep work (narrow grip push-ups, tricep extension etc.)

Have fun building strength with this dip progression and example workouts!

ENDS HERE

What do you think about this progression?

The chair seat dip has its place in my routines time to time as a finisher since its safe to do and can be loaded easily if needed.

For those who enjoy reading in different format the original text is here.

Source text:

https://twoworkouts.blogspot.com/2020/11/chest-dip-progression-guide-starting.html

 

[dawn16]

@icemasterpt Hey... I've heard that flaring elbows out in exercises increases risk of injury..... is this untrue or does it not apply here? Thanks

 

[liv212]

@dawn16 It is preferred to not flare out our elbows as that puts unnecessary strain on your shoulders so yeah. But I guess with dips, keeping the elbows in is just a natural movement of the body as flaring them out would instantly make it uncomfortable.

 

[icemasterpt]

@dawn16 It really depends on the mobility of the shoulder joint but excessive flaring of the elbows is not a good idea. A bench press or pushup would be a great example:

If you keep your arms tucked and close to your body you are mostly engaging your triceps and front delts. Flaring the elbows up to a 90 degree angle (what you see sometimes in the gym) is definately not good for the shoulders and you can develop shoulder impigment in long term if you don't injure yourself before that.

A moderate 45-65 degree angle is where you wan't to do most of the action to happen for the chest training. Using a neutral grip (thumbs up) like with the dips allows the shoulder to move in a better position. Thats why some people with shoulder impigment issues can do hammer grip bench but not straight bar bench press.

Also as I recommend for the dips is to limit the bottom range of motion in a way that you don't go any deeper than necessary.

 

[joshdk]

@icemasterpt Before starting dips progressions, it’s much more important to work on shoulder extension flexibility+mobility.

 

[icemasterpt]

@joshdk Thats true.

But since most will just skip the mobility work it might be a better advice to limit the range on motion according to their capabilities. I would say most prefer not to do any warmup and flexibility routines until they hit a wall. It's usually something you have to learn the hard way...

 

[joshdk]

@icemasterpt Better advice would be to not work on dips at all until they've gotten shoulder flexibility+mobility work to a decent level. Don't even have to start with warmup/flexibility routines yet. Otherwise, limiting ROM on dips is just setting people up for failure. Most people in the gym would just bang out limited ROM on exercises (even like pushups or pullups) when actually they haven't even done 1 rep yet

 

[yslava1]

@joshdk Can you be more specific. What exactly do i need to do?

 

[joshdk]

@yslava1 For developing the proper shoulder extension mobility+flexibility for dips?

For beginners, Start with a standing shoulder extension stretch. Easiest thing to do would be to use something like the bars on a smith machine or stall bars. Anything as long as it’s shoulder height. Stand facing away from the bars, and grab it behind you with shoulder-width grip (and at shoulder height). If it’s too intense for you, grab it wider than shoulder-width (but still keep it at shoulder height) and as your flexibility improves, move it in closer over time. Goal is to keep this in your workout until you no longer feel any sort of stretch at shoulder width+height and then you can move onto more advanced shoulder extension flexibility work.

If you don’t make much progress over like let’s say over a month or so (you could also do it right away if you want) then work on myofascial release of pec minor, anterior+lateral deltoid, and biceps with a lacrosse ball. Also start doing the straight arm Y stretch and bent arm pec stretch.

For your shoulder extension mobility, first work on table variations (finger pointing backwards, not forwards). You could try doing it for reps or for isometric holds. Goal is to do it with legs/knees/feet together, with pinkies touching each other and locked arms. If you have elbow discomfort, you can bring legs apart/shoulders wider and slowly bring them in over time.

For the second mobility exercise, have a dowel/pvc pipe and hold it behind you. Have some sort of weight on the bar, you can start with 2.5 lbs - 5 lbs. Use however wide a grip you can bring it back behind you to shoulder-height. Goal is to do it until you can do it with shoulder-width grip at shoulder-height. If it gets too easy, increase the weight. Doing it for both reps and times are good. The better you get at the shoulder-extension flexibility I talked about above, the easier this exercise will become

 

[yslava1]

@joshdk So if I already do stick dislocates in the warm up I should be good?
Also the idea of these progressions is to keep the full ROM but not use your full body weight and build up to it without getting injured.

 

[joshdk]

@yslava1 No, doing stick dislocates is good for many things but doesn't do much in building shoulder extension mobility/flexibility. The joint action is very different

Also doing stick dislocates in the warmup definitely is nowhere near enough. For me I spend an entire session about 45 mins - 1 hour long doing purely stick dislocates (warm-up sets, work sets, different grips, different positions). Width between my two pinkies for my work-sets are 26 inches wide for my work sets, and doing all that has minimal effects for helping my shoulder extension

 

[lightofthegod]

@icemasterpt Incredible guide, thank you sir!

 

[lostnotfound]

@icemasterpt Comment to save this.

 

[struggling26]

@lostnotfound reddit has a save/bookmark function!

 

[dawn16]

@icemasterpt I worked on chairs many times but it can be se awkward, and I still recommend going out on a proper bar for dips. It's easier, and if the bar width is enough and the two bar distance isn't too far, it just fits so well and dips are easy.

 

[lizmoshes]

@icemasterpt How did you get those 73% of bodyweight for pushups? My calculations resulted in 56%, but I'm sure it's wrong.

 

[mhrova]

@lizmoshes I do not know where op got it from, but a previous post on this subreddit guided towards this source from Cooper Institute where they mention in the up position you do about 69% and in the down position about 75%, so 73% seems a reasonable assumption.

 

[lizmoshes]

@mhrova Seems like they just measured weight. I've got 73% with my scales, but only 56% with calculations. So my formula is incorrect, but I can't figure where.

 

[icemasterpt]

@lizmoshes Here is an article I wrote about the load of different pushups and compared to bench press load:

https://twoworkouts.blogspot.com/2020/09/push-ups-compared-to-bench-press-with.html

There is a large variation between induviduals and even between each rep you do. So using exact percentages is no the best idea. I would say the percentages should be presented with single digit accuracy such as 60%,70% etc. instead of trying to make exact science out of something that is not repeatable. The actual weight percentage is always a guess.