Concept Wednesday - The Minimalist Routine

[dawn16]

@davecb Been training rigorously since 2009. My latest groove is to alternate Upper Body Push/Pull and Legs/Core every other day. However, I only do 5 sets for Push/Pull on the upper day, and then some sort of single leg strength or volume work for the leg day.

For example:

• Neutral Grip Pullups: 5x10 @60s rest
• Narrow Pushups: 5x20 @60s rest

Next day...

• Pistol Squats: 12x3/3 @15s rest
• Hollow Body: 3x30s @30s rest

I change up the exercise each day just to keep it fun. The other day I just did 200 bodyweight squats without rest. Sometimes I'll do muscle ups and dips. Or one arm hangs and handstands. Or shrimp squats and hanging pikes.

Before all this, I start my morning with 10 minutes of mobility/yoga. I walk at least 30min at work and ride my bike with friends. Just trying to do the minimal effective dose and have more fun. Picked up rock climbing recently too.

 

[bethaven]

@dawn16 How's your overall physique doing this kind of routine?

 

[dawn16]

@bethaven My physique has been built from 8 years of various styles of training - mostly low skill bodyweight stuff for higher reps. I've probably only spent 3 years total lifting weights - and nothing all that heavy despite my efforts (310lb deadlift at 152lbs BW for example).

I switched to weighing myself in kilos, so right now I'm 5'10" at 72kg. Lean. A constant 10%BF. I keep my diet in check. I started working at an office, so I'm far more sedentary than usual, so I've adjusted my caloric intake to compensate.

 

[savedbygracethrufaith0713]

@davecb It is funny. Bodybuilders (I only can talk for Germany) are trying to keep the routine as short as possible.

Compared to the most of nowadays bodybuilders routine this routine is quite normal maybe even too long if you do more than 3 sets of each exercise.

I do have a bodybuilding background and when i first saw the recommended routine I didn't believe this sub was recommending that fucking long routine. But it seems that the BWF-Community is used to high volume routines.

I must say that I like this routine very well and I'll give it a try in a few month.

 

[rdmarita]

@davecb Thanks very much for this!

Do you have any idea on the effects of flexibility and mobility training on health? Can you elaborate on that?

 

[davecb]

@rdmarita Source 2 has a section on flexibility and mobility training that you can browse, it's quite short. For general health and wellness, I'd say the biggest risks that can be mitigated are loss of movements associated with gait. The biggest being ankle dorsiflexion, knee extension, and hip extension.

Knee extension is usually a strength issue, so both lunges and squats pushing through to full knee extension will help here.

Ankle dorsiflexion and hip extension don't need any particular fancy mobility work, simply loading these joints in the intended ranges regularly, such as with squats for dorsiflexion and lunges for hip extension will usually mitigate most of the loss. Regularly walking will also reinforce these ranges.

Another vulnerable range is at the shoulder, with people often losing behind the back and overhead mobility as they age. General strengthening of the muscles around the pectoral girdle can assist with maintaining range somewhat, but you could also do a shoulder based mobility program to assist.

If you feel like you need a simple mobility maintenance program, simply performing some joint circles daily can go a long way.

 

[rdmarita]

@davecb Nice, thanks!

 

[velocityth]

@davecb Thanks for the post, Edmond (can I call you Edmond?)! For lunges, instead of forward lunges, maybe you'd consider changing them to Reverse Lunges to reduce shearing stress on the knees?

For the core component, maybe a rotating plank (plank -> side plank -> reverse plank -> side plank (other side) -> plank) or plank alternatives?

 

[davecb]

@velocityth

Thanks for the post, Edmond (can I call you Edmond?)!

no.

For lunges, instead of forward lunges, maybe you'd consider changing them to Reverse Lunges to reduce shearing stress on the knees?

As long as you are planting strongly on the whole foot when you do a forwards lunge, and push off with the whole foot, shearing force on the knee is basically equivalent to reverse lunges. Walking lunges are the most bang for the buck variation for a minimal routine like this, by including that locomotion and dynamic alternating gait. Each variation has it's benefits however, and thus their inclusion in the variation recommendation.

For the core component, maybe a rotating plank (plank -> side plank -> reverse plank -> side plank (other side) -> plank) or plank alternatives?

Sure, whatever you want brosef.

 

[amoretpax199]

@davecb I've actually gotten away from doing any strictly fitness fitness. I do Jiu Jitsu exclusively now and I have noticed my strength and endurance has increased a lot.

 

[drybomber]

@davecb The push-up makes me clean my phone furiously.

 

[richtoday]

@davecb What do you think of Fitness FAQ minimal routine?

10 pullups 10 dips rest 9 0ullups 9 dips rest ... 1 pull-up 1 dip

just add weight slowly over time

what do you think of that?

 

[davecb]

@richtoday Sure. Sounds fine.

Different goals and levels.

Different effects.

 

[andramaxy]

@davecb I've been thinking about the Feldenkrais Method recently. It would be good along with a martial art (Tai Chi/Judo).

Does anyone here have experience with these (or similar)?

[sup]edit:[/sup] [sup]but I'm wary of anything that takes itself too seriously[/sup]

“… it is bad in Judo to try for anything with such determination as not to be able to change your mind if necessary…” (M. Feldenkrais, Higher Judo, pg. 94)

“From my perspective, which is of course as a martial artist, in the Feldenkrais Method you take my balance and I have to find a new balance.” Chiba Sensei, 8th Dan Aikido, after receiving an FI lesson from Elizabeth Beringer, 4th Dan.

from: http://judoinfo.com/feldenkrais/

 

[netwaxer]

@andramaxy 8 years of a fairly obscure internal art, 4-5 years taichi tought by a chinese master emmigrated to australia.

We did a bit of bodyweight stuff that my master had learnt in china. Side planks but with the top foot flat on the floor as the anchor hits your groin as well.

Some pushups. Lots of holding arms outstretched for long periods of time doing various things. Heaps of stretching and compound movements. And standing pole. So much standing pole.

Not sure if that helps.

 

[andramaxy]

@netwaxer It's interesting/helpful learning about different practices. Thanks. Perhaps you could compare/contrast to BWF, if it's useful to do so. And/or explain/reflect on the benefits of practising an internal art.

 

[netwaxer]

@andramaxy Well taichi is an ima too.

Basically they focus on the flow of energy from your feet/abdomen into movements - literally, as in the transfer of kinetic energy - not some abstract concept.

External MA like karate focus on being hard and firm and doing moves as hard as you can.

They both end up at the same spot in the end - very powerful strikes performed by very fit practitioners in a very efficient way. It's just a difference in philosophy.

On phone so not going to compare MA with bwf.

 

[andramaxy]

@netwaxer Thanks, tbp. Feldenkrais talks about it a bit in the interview I linked.

Well, I don't know that it's a few inches here and a few inches there. It has to do with the full organization of your body, you can see it in whatever you do. You actually get chi through using the pelvis and the lower abdominal muscles, the strong muscles of the body as a unit concentrated from where all push or pull is issued. The rest of the body and the arms needn't be powerful. It is not a muscle, it is not a point. It has nothing to do with this point, because if it were a point … Look, if you move your body like that, the point is gone (makes a move to demonstrate, a shift in the center of gravity to outside the body). A point a few inches there, a few inches here, if you go there, you will find that it is full of shit, literally. (Laughter) That point is full of shit. And this is the point of chi.

He talks about how good dancers require it. I'm curious—and sceptical (but, then, who the fuck am I?). (On longevity) I'm interested in how these Judo originators/masters were agile and strong into their 70s (but perhaps it's a survivor-ship bias). Taichi is compelling in terms of longevity (and doesn't require tremendous mattery to do this sort of thing). I don't know if the elderly taichi practitioners lived lives of dynamic movement, rather than the modern, sedentary west.

 

[netwaxer]

@andramaxy I personally agree with Feldenkrais' decription of chi. The way my master explained it made it sound like this incredibly mystic and impossible thing, even though he insisted it isn't. I think it simply doesn't translate well to english. So I have formed my own understanding through practice, and this description in the interview fits it perfectly:

To me, ki is not a thing and not a spirit and not an anything, but the way a body is organized to function and that way in which it functions best. It means that a body can produce with it's weight, with the muscles that it has, with the brain it has, the greatest amount of work possible with a particular organization of that body and that particular organization turns out to be central to the thing we are talking about. It's a complex appreciation of how a human body is made, how it functions

So internal martial arts (including taijiquan) are really focused on developing an appreciation of a movement, an extremely deep understanding of where the kinetic energy flows. That's why training those arts involves so much repetition.

For taiji you start with doing everything relaxed, even more relaxed that you would have thought possible. Then you work on keeping everything 'open' (hollow chest, gaps in the armpits and groin - but not to excess. I can't really explain this through text). Then you try and feel your abdomen throughout your form and how it contributes to every movement, how the kinetic energy of a move is flowing. And the final level that I reached (and I'm sure there are others beyond this) before injury made me stop was to feel the ying/yang (push/pull) in every movement. Lifting an arm involves an opening of one angle and a closing of the other. Pushing forwards involves pushing of the back leg and pulling of the front, et cetera. It takes minutes to explain and years to understand - and I was never very good at it myself.

In terms of the bodyweight stuff in the judo video, a few of those movements have been co-opted by the Human Movement guys (ido portal, /@jake1996). My belief is that each of the martial arts systems has their own very effective methods of training for their art. As long as you have a good teacher who knows the proper systems, their forms of bwf are very effective.

 

[andramaxy]

@netwaxer This is really interesting - thanks! I can begin to imagine the things flowing from the abdomen idea, but the push/pull remains a bit too abstract for me. I suppose there are similarities to Feldenkrais/Alexander if only in that they demand a different perspective on motion (an awareness/attention dealy). It's only in the last couple of years that I've realised how important breath is . .

Re.Judo I feel a bit past it (I fear for my back watching those guys), but I'm interested in culture and the health of populations. Perhaps the MMA trend will renew interest . . . sorry, i got distracted - the clouds outside are black but lit gold from behind by the sun. and the wind is blowing new examples of shapes and textures. it looks really cool!

I hope you're repairing from your injuries. I'm not sure how to make that sound more sincere/less trite; I know how much it sucks to have your life controlled/misdirected by such things. alas.